Cheapest I've seen is polymer 80% lower with PSA rifle kit. Can't get much cheaper than that. But guess what? They work. They go bang every time. Hey, OP asked about the cheapest, here it is!
How would you even know regarding the stacked tolerances, especially if it's perfectly 100% functional now?I was suggesting that Colt commands a price far higher than I put their quality. They are decent rifles.
Heirloom longevity would relate to a lack of stacked tolerances that degrade the reliability of the rifle faster. This can be a common issue with cheap ARs. A rifle worth handing down that can survive the years and wear and still be solid as a rock. Some can, some can't. Its not a real term, I used it because I figured one could easily divine my meaning or general idea.
Cheapest I've seen is polymer 80% lower with PSA rifle kit. Can't get much cheaper than that. But guess what? They work. They go bang every time. Hey, OP asked about the cheapest, here it is!
I tend to agree with that - the poly 80 ARs are ok, but I've seen so many accounts of something breaking on them - usually it's at the takedown pin holes. If you can't keep it together physically, it's not going to work.He said cheapest you would trust. Not just cheapest.
To the OP, nothing to laugh about. There are some good rifles that can be had for a good price.
I have two Delton rifles in my collection both have been reliable and fun to shoot. The older one has close to 2k rounds through it with no issues.
How would you even know regarding the stacked tolerances, especially if it's perfectly 100% functional now?
I would venture to guess than 97% (gotta leave that 3% out) of us here on MDS will never fire any single one of our guns enough to actually wear them out. A few will - serious trap and skeet guys will, and serious 3-gun and handgun competitors will. Serious benchrest guys will wear out guns.
With that in mind, the folks who are serious about it already spend a hefty amount on their guns, and the serious handgun competitors I've seen typically have several higher end guns in rotation, depending on which ones are functioning best or in the best state of repair. Those guys wear out guns. Most of us don't. How many of us on here are serious gunners? I know I'd like to shoot more, but I seriously doubt I'll ever wear out a gun even if stacked tolerances might cause premature wear after say...20,000 rounds? More?
Not even my Delton or PSA ARs.
Ok - I think you and I are mostly on the same page - just maybe looking at things a bit differently.You're 1000% right. Most people won't shoot 20k rounds through a rifle in their lifetime. Especially if they accumulate many rifles like most of us do. This kind of goes back to what I'm saying about buy once cry once. The only repairs or replacements that I want to make is a rebarreling, springs, a bolt and firing pins. I try to put at least 4k through my nicer ARs every year. Without shooting competition. So 20k can be achieved rather quickly. And if I'm handing something down I don't want it to be a rattling out-of-spec casual tier AR with a shot barrel. Again this is my personal opinion and I'm not trying to condescending to people who go a different route. It's just how I personally operate.
As far as stacking tolerances go. You'll either know right away with loose fitment, abnormal wear patterns, gassing and feeding issues, inaccuracy etc. Cheaper rifles are well known for these issues. You can take your rifle to a skilled armorer for inspection to help head off some of these issues before they compound and make a mess of your build or complete rifle.
It just lends to more problems. And then there's the mentality of those who cannot justify a 1500+ dollar rifle. They tend to not justify reliable optics, weapon lights. Even slings, mags and ammo. It makes for a very high chance of failure if one sort or another. Good components don't have to be expensive. And many are not. It's knowing what is and isn't worth the investment and ignoring all the snake oil campaigns. To me there's not enough of that info out there to average shooters.
I enjoy shooting quite a bit, and rifles that just run hard beg you to shoot them. I'd take a couple well built rifles over a pile of average ones any day. These companies like BCA and PSA and Anderson, while arming many Americans which is important, spend a lot of money convincing customers that their product, while costing half as much or less, is just as good and that their customers have beaten the system with their rifles. BCA, PSA and Anderson convince people that they charge less out of kindness and duty, that their rifles run just the same. And the occasional shooter may never know the difference. When the reality is that they pass quality control onto the consumer and innovation onto third parties.
It's a hard pill for some people to swallow. All I know is I'm glad I moved on from that phase where I had to justify costs and I'm a million times happier for it. Even for casual shooting, they are just more enjoyable because they just run better and I know if I had to hand it to someone to protect themselves with I won't be handing them a liability.
Just my take.
All things being equal (and they're not...), any AR is better than no AR...
Buy two lower receivers and some magazines. You have plenty of years to go before you will have to worry about buying the rest of the parts.
Congratulations on the twins and may God have mercy on you. You have a lot of no sleep nights ahead of you for a while. My twins are almost 2 years old and they have only both started sleeping through then night in the last month or two. I hope yours are better sleepers than mine are.
Do you have data on this?
All things being equal (and they're not...), any AR is better than no AR...
He said cheapest you would trust. Not just cheapest.
I've had a Colt AR malfunction on me so trust is relative.
I've had a Colt AR malfunction on me so trust is relative.
I'd trust any non polymer AR as long as it was gauged. Out of the box? Very few brands. BCM, SOLGW and Colt.
I think this is a good point.
Most any reliability issue with an AR is either related to parts that are out of spec, poor assembly, or both. This is assuming that the important parts are also made to at least "mil spec" (looking at you, S&W).
Assuming a low end AR is within acceptable tolerance, it really becomes a matter of proper assembly.
I also think that trying to find an AR that has at least a nitride barrel is ideal. A non lined barrel is just fine for most people, but in terms of long term storage, it can be more prone to corrosion. But certainly no reason I would not "trust" a basic non lined barrel, so long as it was confirmed to be within spec.
My PSA CHF upper has been flawless, but I also stripped it down, dimpled the barrel, and reassembled everything to my preference, so I know it's legit. I've done the same thing for a few friends with Anderson rifles, Rugers, and a Delton. It will amaze you how easily some of the gas blocks will come off.