Do People Mix Up Yards And Feet?

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  • gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    Since no one actually answered the OPs question, I will.

    Yes, you need to practice at 25 yards. Or longer. At 25 feet, or about 8 yards, slow shooting with my competition guns, that group would have me pissed at how poorly I'm shooting. I expect a near 1-ragged-hole group at that distance.

    My 22 pistol will be the same at 25 yards. Offhand with my cz shadow or tactical sport in 9mm or .40, a 25 yard group might look closer to yours.
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,232
    Carroll County
    So commies dont have to be as good?

    Commies are evil. But they shoot the 200 meters right alongside the Patriots on the 40 Rod Line.

    Or the Patriots shoot their 40 Rod Match right alongside the commies on the 200 Meter Line.

    Which is which?
     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,447
    MD
    OP, standard police handgun quals go out to 25 yards. We're shooting silhouette targets. You're generally in the five ring if you're in center mass. Remember that these shots are all in the timer and either from the holster or high cover depending on the stage. Our stage at the 7 yard line is (I think) where we draw from the holster, fire 6 or 7 rounds, tactical reload, switch to weak hand supported by the strong and fire 6 or 7 more. Thirty-five seconds.

    I THINK we fire at the 3, 7, 12, 15 and 25 yard lines.


    Worth noting that if we qualify from charging horses, we start at half a league (half a league, half a league onward).
     

    2ndCharter

    Based dude w/ lovin' hands
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 19, 2011
    4,794
    Eastern Shore
    Our pistol quals were 25 yards or meters... depending on which fed agency maintained the range. My memory is a bit fuzzy but I think @joppaj is close, if not on the money with his target distances. We mostly shot 7, 15 and 25 I think. :shrug:
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    Every now and then I read about someone shooting targets at 10 yards or 20 yards, maybe even 25 yards and what size group they can shoot. I typically shoot at 25 FEET. At 25 yards I'm not sure I could even see the target as my front sight post may be bigger than the target. In your experience, do you think people are mixing up their distance units? I have attached an average grouping for me at 25 FEET (usually all within the 9 ring, sometimes 1 rat hole with a couple flyers). At 25 yards I'm pretty sure it wouldnt be a group at all. Do I need to start practicing at 20 yards, or do you think a lot of people are confused about how far they actually shoot?

    I am sure some people are confused about how far they actually shoot, but most ranges are shot at known distances. What you seem to be missing is that the targets are sized for a known distance. The farther away the target is sized for, the larger the target. The target you posted is a 50 ft target and would normally be shot at 50 ft. Shooting them closer than that distance would make it easier, while shooting them farther away would make it harder. If you want to shoot at 25 yards get a different target designed for that distance.

    See page 12-13 for the various target sizes for pistols.
    http://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,407
    Glen Burnie
    OP, standard police handgun quals go out to 25 yards. We're shooting silhouette targets. You're generally in the five ring if you're in center mass. Remember that these shots are all in the timer and either from the holster or high cover depending on the stage. Our stage at the 7 yard line is (I think) where we draw from the holster, fire 6 or 7 rounds, tactical reload, switch to weak hand supported by the strong and fire 6 or 7 more. Thirty-five seconds.

    I THINK we fire at the 3, 7, 12, 15 and 25 yard lines.


    Worth noting that if we qualify from charging horses, we start at half a league (half a league, half a league onward).

    Ours was Bent elbow (retention) at 1.5 yards.
    then 3,7,15 and 25. Nothing like feeling like your eyebrows melting off at 1.5

    60 rounds. 300 points. 255 minimum passing.
    Barricade at 15 and 25. I always shot left hand from left hand barricade. I sucked at leaning over into it with my right.
    I never understood the 25 yard. No need to get into a shootout at 25. Especially when you and the threat most likely are moving.
     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,447
    MD
    Ours was Bent elbow (retention) at 1.5 yards.
    then 3,7,15 and 25. Nothing like feeling like your eyebrows melting off at 1.5

    60 rounds. 300 points. 255 minimum passing.
    Barricade at 15 and 25. I always shot left hand from left hand barricade. I sucked at leaning over into it with my right.
    I never understood the 25 yard. No need to get into a shootout at 25. Especially when you and the threat most likely are moving.

    We're 60 rounds/ 300 points. Barricades at 25 yards. I think 15 yards is where we shoot while kneeling. It explains the ceiling impacts down range. We have one stage fairly early on (might be at the 7) where we shoot one handed. I always give away a few points there.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,407
    Glen Burnie
    We're 60 rounds/ 300 points. Barricades at 25 yards. I think 15 yards is where we shoot while kneeling. It explains the ceiling impacts down range. We have one stage fairly early on (might be at the 7) where we shoot one handed. I always give away a few points there.
    And how about this. We're not carrying revolvers anymore. So let's do away with the "load magazines to 6 rounds". Adapt a qual to magazine standards nowadays.
     

    Tungsten

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2012
    7,230
    Elkridge, Leftistan
    I am sure some people are confused about how far they actually shoot, but most ranges are shot at known distances. What you seem to be missing is that the targets are sized for a known distance. The farther away the target is sized for, the larger the target. The target you posted is a 50 ft target and would normally be shot at 50 ft. Shooting them closer than that distance would make it easier, while shooting them farther away would make it harder. If you want to shoot at 25 yards get a different target designed for that distance.

    I have noticed at times I get a better group with a silhouette or rifle targets than I do with a bullseye target on the same day. Maybe I need to switch to smaller targets to help with the "aim small, miss small" idea.

    In my head I want a ~2-3" group at hallway distances. I have also tried using rifle targets with 1" square bullseye.

    BTW this would be close to my best at 25 feet but I only achieve it something similar 15-20% of the time. Usually I have a good group with a couple flyers and the group having vertical or horizontal stringing.
     

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    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    Yup. Back in the day, 40 rods was a standard range for rifle competition.

    Then the damn commies replaced it with 200 meter matches.
    I getcha. Damn Euros can't count to twelve.


    Furlong=220 yards or 201.16 Meters so they're cheating you out of 1.168 meters. :D
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    Since no one actually answered the OPs question, I will.

    Yes, you need to practice at 25 yards. Or longer. At 25 feet, or about 8 yards, slow shooting with my competition guns, that group would have me pissed at how poorly I'm shooting. I expect a near 1-ragged-hole group at that distance.

    My 22 pistol will be the same at 25 yards. Offhand with my cz shadow or tactical sport in 9mm or .40, a 25 yard group might look closer to yours.


    I think the answer was in the sarcasm. No. Most of us DO know the difference. :)
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,232
    Carroll County
    Yup. 40 rods to the furlong, which is damn near 200 meters.
    The difference is barely more than an ell, as you noted.




    The French revolutionaries gave us the metric system and the Bolsheviks.
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    I have noticed at times I get a better group with a silhouette or rifle targets than I do with a bullseye target on the same day. Maybe I need to switch to smaller targets to help with the "aim small, miss small" idea.

    In my head I want a ~2-3" group at hallway distances. I have also tried using rifle targets with 1" square bullseye.

    BTW this would be close to my best at 25 feet but I only achieve it something similar 15-20% of the time. Usually I have a good group with a couple flyers and the group having vertical or horizontal stringing.

    Are you referring to the score you get or the actual group size? The scoring rings change between targets. For example the NRA 50 ft pistol slow fire target colors the 7 ring black and is ~3 in in size, while the NRA 50 ft pistol timed and rapid fire target, which you posted, has only the 9 and 10 rings black, but the 9 ring is ~3 in size. The same group size will give you two different scores depending on the target. You should theoretically get the same group size regardless of the target.
     

    Tungsten

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2012
    7,230
    Elkridge, Leftistan
    Are you referring to the score you get or the actual group size? The scoring rings change between targets.

    I'm only worried about group size. I don't think I have ever scored any of my targets. I figure if I can consistently achieve 2-3" group then I can move on to different types of training, but if I have no inherent accuracy then what is the point of adding in dynamic techniques?

    I think I am now at that level or damn close so I need to start signing up for training this year.

    I have also used 4 different pistols, but have finally settled on one going forward. Maybe that will help with consistency as well.
     

    Steel Hunter

    Active Member
    Nov 10, 2019
    548
    I don't think it's all that common to confuse feet with yards, but I do think a lot of shooters have rifles zeroed at something other than 100 yards true. Lots of 95-99yd and 101-105yd zeros I'm sure. Does this matter? Not really for most people since Maryland doesn't have any longer ranges that I know of that are open more than a day or two a week. Quantico is the only nice long range in the area I've heard of aside from private farm land.
     

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