Why COPS use .40: Q & A With a Cop

Alan3413 · Jan 15, 2019

Eastern_Water_Moccasin said:
Well most you regurgitate things you read from internet anyway. My brother-in-law took 16 shots of 9mm to his chest still here with us. I guy i knew in high school got shot by cops in a stolen car never knew he got shot until his arrest. Finally, i knew 2 guys who got in a fight with each other. One guy shot the other 4 times and the guy shot still took the weapon from him and beat his ass and the other guy went to prison for 6 years. So you keep believing all the things you read on the internet.

That's nothing. I know a guy who was bombed with a nuke. Twice. And he lived to his '70s.

rseymorejr · Jan 15, 2019

Alan3413 said:
That's nothing. I know a guy who was bombed with a nuke. Twice. And he lived to his '70s.

The unluckiest man in Japan!

Mr.Blue · Jan 15, 2019

eruby said:

Tracker · Jan 15, 2019

smokey0118 said:
I wouldn't say amazing. All service caliber handguns generally suck at quickly stopping people.

And on that note, I seem to remember seeing a show where Col. Craig Boddington commented that "A pistol is something you use to fight your way to a rifle"

Tracker · Jan 15, 2019

Mr.Blue said:
No handgun caliber makes everyone go down all the time. People have been shot with .44 magnums and kept coming. Most of the times people go down when they are shot with handgun it’s because of fear and the shock of being shot. Even a heart shot won’t kill a person immediately. My cousin shot a guy high on coke right in the heart with 45+P right in the heart. The guy kept coming. Sure he bled out, but not after fighting more.

Unless you hit the brain stem, you are not a guaranteed of a one stop shot.

That's for sure. I shot a deer with a 12ga slug and it turned around and ran 50 yrds before it dropped. When we skinned it the R shoulder was smashed, the heart was destroyed and the L shoulder was smashed and the slug was found between the skin and the muscle on the L side. I'm sure glad that deer wasn't carrying a gun. He might have killed me!

zoostation · Jan 15, 2019

photoracer said:
??? The Fed HS .40 is slower than the Fed HS 9mm by 120 FPS.
It a fact that bullet expansion is directly related to velocity. Its hard to design a bullet that will reliably expand at velocities of 1000 FPS or slower Its simply physics.

A bullet below 1000fps won't reliably expand? I would love to see a source for that. Because a lot of .40 and .45 JHP ammo apparently hasn't been told that.

Second, expansion is not directly correlated to velocity. Look up the tests of 9mm +P+ JHP rounds that fail to expand specifically because of the excessive velocity.

Lastly I was talking about speed and weight when I talked about .40 being too hot a round for the Hydra Shok bullet. 180 grains is a lot heavier than 124/147 grains. It's simply too hot a round for the bullet design IMHO. I'm really not talking out of my butt here.

I read enough autopsy reports with core jacket separations after the bullets were recovered to form an opinion. Speer Gold Dot and similar work much better in .40, likely due to their more modern bonded jacket.

Believe what you want. I worked for the freakin' ammo companies for years after I left LE on top of seeing what different spent bullets looked like after being removed from dead bodies. I know what I'll trust and what I won't!

Biggfoot44 · Jan 16, 2019

It's not just the price of the pistol that is the budget concern . Using less hours, and fewer rounds to get all the Ofc "qualified" is a big deal to bean counters . ( To "us" popping rounds is fun , and somthing we pay to do . To bean counters , every minute someone is at the range is a minute that either they are getting overtime, or the person taking their place at usual assignment is getting overtime .

As I disclaimed before , the .40 per se doesn't particularly impress me . If you want to move up from the reasonably adaquate 9mm ( or .38 +P ) , don't do half ass, half way measures . Step up to .357 Mag, .45acp, .357Sig, full power 10mm, etc .

Without comment on the .40 180gr Hydra Shok specifically , I will observe the .45 230gr Hydra Shok works well .

spoon059 · Jan 16, 2019

zoostation said:
Your dept. may have been better off testing some Gold Dot or Golden Saber similar bonded jacket HP .40 ammo. I really think the bonded jacket makes the difference in performance for that round.

My department was looking to get rid of the Glock 40, not the Hydrashok round. Through an agreement with Glock, we were able to trade in our G22s for G17 or G19's at full price... We kept the Glock platform so we didn't need to retrain officers, buy new holsters, new gun lights, etc etc. We switched to 9's. So far, the gun and ammo sure seem effective. An officer shot and killed a bank robber this morning with lowly 9mm rounds...
https://wjla.com/news/local/montgomery-county-police-armed-bank-robbery-silver-spring

StantonCree · Jan 16, 2019

Eastern_Water_Moccasin said:
Funny thing is, back in the day, DC cops used the glock 17 and still does and Maryland cops like PG county and MSP use Beretta 92f both 9mm, since the switched over from revolvers and they didn't go to the .40 cal when the FBI did back then but MSP and PG sure did seem to find some benefit in using it since 2008. From my understanding they needed more stopping power and they sure don't seem to be wanting to follow the FBI in the switching back to 9mm decision now. Funny

FYI one of those agencies is 95% chance going back to 9mm

Name Taken · Jan 16, 2019

spoon059 said:
My department was looking to get rid of the Glock 40, not the Hydrashok round. Through an agreement with Glock, we were able to trade in our G22s for G17 or G19's at full price... We kept the Glock platform so we didn't need to retrain officers, buy new holsters, new gun lights, etc etc. We switched to 9's. So far, the gun and ammo sure seem effective. An officer shot and killed a bank robber this morning with lowly 9mm rounds...
https://wjla.com/news/local/montgomery-county-police-armed-bank-robbery-silver-spring

Impossible. You can take 16 9mm rounds to the chest and live.

spoon059 · Jan 16, 2019

Name Taken said:
Impossible. You can take 16 9mm rounds to the chest and live.

G17 carries 17 rounds...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Squaregrouper · Jan 16, 2019

Name Taken said:
Impossible. You can take 16 9mm rounds to the chest and live.

spoon059 said:
G17 carries 17 rounds...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Now I get it. It was #17 that finally did him in. Makes perfect sense now.

Occam · Jan 16, 2019

Spotted Horse cannot be killed by bullets!

JakeThePit · Jan 16, 2019

Name Taken said:
Impossible. You can take 16 9mm rounds to the chest and live.

The report of the shot must have caused a fatal heart attack.

One time, at band camp, I was shot 16 times by a 9mm and then I lifted a car off a baby.

Occam · Jan 16, 2019

JakeThePit said:
... and then I lifted a car off a baby.

Ford or Chevy? Oops, wrong thread.

Eastern_Water_Moccasin · Jan 17, 2019

Remember the girl who shot the guy point blank in the head with that glock 26 on facebook live earlier last years. I would have thought it would have killed him instantly. As for my brother in law, i surely didn't believe he would make it through but he did and yes it was 16 hits. I don't like to play around with death or someone else's misfortune like that so i certainly wouldn't put a lie into the universe like that. Just sharing some info I've seen personally on the subject.

GUNSnROTORS · Jan 17, 2019

Been meaning to get one of those Seventeenth Chance vests.

Because sometimes a Second Chance vest isn't nearly enough chances.

smokey · Jan 17, 2019

Eastern_Water_Moccasin said:
Remember the girl who shot the guy point blank in the head with that glock 26 on facebook live earlier last years. I would have thought it would have killed him instantly. As for my brother in law, i surely didn't believe he would make it through but he did and yes it was 16 hits. I don't like to play around with death or someone else's misfortune like that so i certainly wouldn't put a lie into the universe like that. Just sharing some info I've seen personally on the subject.

https://www.today.com/news/florida-woman-survives-gunshot-between-eyes-wbna23914454
Fun times with terminal ballistics....

StantonCree · Jan 17, 2019

Saw a 16 year old take a .40 to skull. Bullet traveled around the skull and exited the forehead never penetrating the actual skull.

Once met a guy with 3 holes in his chest from a 9mm. Had a normal everyday conversation with him to keep his mind off his wounds. We even laughed together awaiting the ambulance. He was standing. He died at the hospital.

Once met a chick that took a 45 slug to the boob. She was crazy scared but very nice. Perfect round hole in her upper boob, no blood. She survived.

Bullets do wonky things. I’ve seen a lot of dead/dying people and i can tell you this 9/45/45/25/22/38/357 i don’t wanna be shot by any of them.

Biggfoot44 · Jan 17, 2019

Stacey Lim .

Why COPS use .40: Q & A With a Cop

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