M1 Carbine powder/cycling..?

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  • Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    lil gun, or 4227 are what i have (on hand). I'm curious if anyone has reloaded 110gr w/ these two powders and had consistent cycling.

    Not asking about other powders at this time.. just these two. I don't shoot it enough to justify ANOTHER powder just to get 100% cycling.

    I replaced the recoil spring a while back and only had about 100 rounds thru the new spring. It ejects the round fine, but most of the time it doesn't pick up the next one or if it does.. it gets hung up on the way into the chamber.

    Maybe it's not a powder problem.>??
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    reloading data available on the website
    http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

    I have used 4227 , 110 RN jacketed and 14gr 4227 to good success which is within the range on the website.

    Have you chrono'd your reloads?
    Have you tried any factory ammo?
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    i've looked at a couple sites/books. Perhaps the powder i had was stored poorly or i dind't have enough crimp on the brass itself.. idk. i took 30 rounds out to the farm yesterday. zero failures. 15gr of lil gun. i'm going to try 4227 next because i have a few pounds of that but swear i tried it before and it didn't cycle for me.

    most things worth testing.. is worth testing a 2nd time.

    I have NOT chronoed my ammo but even factory ammo was giving me problems. it was.. Armscore no idea if that's "good/bad/bold/ugly" for m1 carbine.. it's what was in stock.
     

    Seabee

    Old Timer
    Oct 9, 2011
    517
    Left marylandistan to NC
    15 gr of lil gun is shown as max on hodgdon site, 14.5 with 4227. I checked 4 manuals and all showed the same data as hodgdon. Perhaps your new recoil spring is stronger than the previous one and not allowing the bolt to go far enough back to pick up another round. You may be right about not enough crimp. I use 15 gr of H-110 in mine and never an issue. Have you checked the gas port and piston to be sure its clear? I replaced the my piston with a newer version.
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    15 gr of lil gun is shown as max on hodgdon site, 14.5 with 4227. I checked 4 manuals and all showed the same data as hodgdon. Perhaps your new recoil spring is stronger than the previous one and not allowing the bolt to go far enough back to pick up another round. You may be right about not enough crimp. I use 15 gr of H-110 in mine and never an issue. Have you checked the gas port and piston to be sure its clear? I replaced the my piston with a newer version.

    I did take it down and clear the piston. I wasn't sure what i was doing to be honest.. but youtube comes to the rescue again! I still have the old spring. i have a 50cal ammo box i keep all the "orig parts" in for various guns. old triggers, springs, screws .. etc etc.

    i'm thinking it's the crimp.. honestly.. i say that because i didn't have a crimp die before. i had resizer, powder thru, and bullet seating. I have sense added a factory crimp die. This is only negated by, it failing to cycle factory ammo. This failure was with the old and new recoil spring.

    i'm going to try again w/ less powder.. still w/in the specs though. Previous testing showed that i wasn't able to get it to cycle unless i went max or slightly OVER max powder charge, which i didn't want to do. So now i'll try 4227 and lil gun again, stepping it down a bit until i reach low end of charge info or failure to cycle.

    the goal is.. fun little plinking round for dueling trees and what not for my family, as long as they are also SAFE rounds.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    I'd focus on getting it working with factory ammo first. I've heard some of the imported ammo can be a little light (Aquila, PPU). Maybe try some Remington (I've seen it at gun shows for $23-25 a box). If it doesn't work with factory ammo, something else is wrong. I think you're wasting your time tweaking handloads if there is a mechanical problem. Is the castle nut that holds the piston in tight? Does it stay tight after it's been shot? What mags are you using? Any of them GI? Proper lubrication?
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    I'd focus on getting it working with factory ammo first. I've heard some of the imported ammo can be a little light (Aquila, PPU). Maybe try some Remington (I've seen it at gun shows for $23-25 a box). If it doesn't work with factory ammo, something else is wrong. I think you're wasting your time tweaking hand loads if there is a mechanical problem. Is the castle nut that holds the piston in tight? Does it stay tight after it's been shot? What mags are you using? Any of them GI? Proper lubrication?

    i have some new and some orig GI magazines, have to dbl check the nut but last inspection didn't seem to reveal anything fishy. the bolt is silly smooth, it's so smooth compared to m1a but it's a much smaller spring too.

    is it fair to assume.. that any load listed for 30 carbine will cycle the m1 carbine? If so, i see no reason building a load for it is a bad thing. I mean.. i know 15gr works fine.. now i'll go down .3gr until it no longer consistently cycles OR until i get to the min charge.
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    Went to the range w/ 5 groups of 3 powders and charge sets. I'm guessing there's a problem with crimp because in my testing the cycling was hit or miss. I even retested the load i had 100% success with. I broke down and got another dillon toolhead so once i get it working, it's "set and forget"... well not really "forget" but you all get the idea.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Are you measuring the cases and trimming each time?

    I have heard that .30 Carbine is VERY sensitive to case length.
     

    SKIP

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 5, 2009
    3,248
    Glenwood/Glenelg
    Are you measuring the cases and trimming each time?

    I have heard that .30 Carbine is VERY sensitive to case length.

    That is why I never ever crimp an .30 M1 cartridge.
    The cartridge headspaces on case length.
    I have so much brass that I never trim.
    Once in a while I will have a fail to fire and when I compare it
    to another cartridge I find the case is just a tap long.
    If you crimp the cartridge it may be a hair shorter.
    The hammer will fall and you will notice a like strike on the primer.
     

    Seabee

    Old Timer
    Oct 9, 2011
    517
    Left marylandistan to NC
    I'd focus on getting it working with factory ammo first. I've heard some of the imported ammo can be a little light (Aquila, PPU). Maybe try some Remington (I've seen it at gun shows for $23-25 a box). If it doesn't work with factory ammo, something else is wrong. I think you're wasting your time tweaking handloads if there is a mechanical problem. Is the castle nut that holds the piston in tight? Does it stay tight after it's been shot? What mags are you using? Any of them GI? Proper lubrication?

    I agree. If its short stroking its likely a plugged gas port, stuck piston or maybe op rod dragging somewhere. As mentioned, it could be a mag issue too. You haven't shot cast bullets in it have you?
     

    Seabee

    Old Timer
    Oct 9, 2011
    517
    Left marylandistan to NC
    That is why I never ever crimp an .30 M1 cartridge.
    The cartridge headspaces on case length.
    I have so much brass that I never trim.
    Once in a while I will have a fail to fire and when I compare it
    to another cartridge I find the case is just a tap long.
    If you crimp the cartridge it may be a hair shorter.
    The hammer will fall and you will notice a like strike on the primer.

    I've never had them stretch and only crimp enough to take out the mouth flare
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    I agree. If its short stroking its likely a plugged gas port, stuck piston or maybe op rod dragging somewhere. As mentioned, it could be a mag issue too. You haven't shot cast bullets in it have you?

    I have not, however I inherited it from my father in law's estate... who knows what he shot thru it.

    I'm considering sending it in to a gun smith to evaluate it and what not but the gun smiths i've spoken with typically say it'll be a few weeks before they get to it. which, leaves me sad inside hahaha.
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    That is why I never ever crimp an .30 M1 cartridge.
    The cartridge headspaces on case length.
    I have so much brass that I never trim.
    Once in a while I will have a fail to fire and when I compare it
    to another cartridge I find the case is just a tap long.
    If you crimp the cartridge it may be a hair shorter.
    The hammer will fall and you will notice a like strike on the primer.


    do you ever get bullets set back on feeding? No crimp scares me in anything except bolt guns... personally.
     

    SKIP

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 5, 2009
    3,248
    Glenwood/Glenelg
    do you ever get bullets set back on feeding? No crimp scares me in anything except bolt guns... personally.

    I use IMR 4227 which pretty much fills the case with a 110 FMJ.
    I never worry about it.
    Not knowing your location why not meet at the AGC one day.
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    tried some more w/ LIL gun this weekend. i loaded 10 w/o primers or powder.. and cycled the bolt manually. zero feeding issues.. i introduced powder n primers and it fed the first one off the magazine, but jammed @ the feeding ramp almost 90% of the time. if i put THAT bullet in the magazine again manualy and pulled the bolt back all the way.. it fed fine.

    this leads me to believe it's not cycling the bolt back all the way because of what changed from feeding inert rounds to live rounds fed from the gas of the round before. i THOUGHT the gas port was clear, i'll have to take another (perhaps better) look.
     

    8milimeter

    RICHARD (dino)
    Feb 15, 2009
    486
    Frederick, Md
    M1 carbine cycling

    Make sure the hole in the receiver where the spring fits is completely clean. Residual dried 75 years old grease is like tar. This restricts the spring function. Use a bore brush and solvent. Lub the spring with oil and grease the slide grooves.
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    i met SKIP at the range one weekend. 100% success. I also then fired the ones that i had which were causing some problems and... 100% success. I'll check the holes n metal again. the bolt does have an ever so slight catch when cycling. i wouldn't even call it a "catch" more like "moment of extra tension" about 2/3 of the cycle stroke. then it goes back to "normal".
     

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