Rejected by Dealer to Ship Mags Out of State

armed_economist · Dec 6, 2017

Also, for M&P 2.0 FDE, there is just no 10-round mags produced in that color (the black model does have 10 round mags for states like us), so ordering it through a Maryland FFL, you would just get no mags at all, but won't pay less because of it.

armed_economist · Dec 6, 2017

lazarus said:
From the seller, no. From the transferring FFL, their is whatever their transfer fee is. Plus MDSP charge $10 for the 77r background check. Most FFLs make you pay it.

So you’d be looking at $60 to transfer it in that case. If you are interested in more than 1, keep in mind MD limits you to 1 regulated firearm (a handgun or lower receiver) purchase per 30 days or 2 in 60 days (but that is only supposed to be for special sales prices, estate sales and a couple of other exceptions).

If you get a designated collectors license (just google search MD firearm designated collectors license to get the form and info) you have no limits to how many and how often you can buy regulated firearms (still 7 day waiting period). DC letter is free, just need a notary to stamp it and then mail it in.

Also a perk of purchasing more than one at once if you can afford it, is some FFLs might cut you a discount if you are buying more than 1 gun from them at a time. Almost all are going to cut you a discount on the transfer fees. And the MSP background check fee for the 77r is per 77r. Doesn’t matter if there is 1 or 20 firearms on there.

Example the FFL I usually use charges $40 for long gun transfers and $50 for regulated firearms. He cut me a discount of $80 for two lower receivers. So with the single background check fee, that saved $30 doing two at once. Probably if I had done 3 I could have talked him in to maybe $100 to do all 3.

Yes I'm aware of the transfer fee plus $10 MSP fee. I asked my FFL yesterday and they told me it's OK to buy multiple guns on one application and pay the $10 once, if you have the collector status. I'm interested in owning both these 2 guns (I'm interested in other models but I probably should ease into this thing slowly lol), and would like to get a multi-buy discount.

I just got my HQL approved (still waiting for card to arrive in mail, FFL says must have physical card to buy), and I have also applied for collector's permit in the meantime. FFL told me they won't approve it until you buy your first gun after getting HQL, because to be deemed a collector you have to have at least one gun. They suggest I buy one gun first, and then call state police to remind them I now own a gun and please re-evaluate my collector application. Is that how it works?

DaemonAssassin · Dec 6, 2017

armed_economist said:
Yes I'm aware of the transfer fee plus $10 MSP fee. I asked my FFL yesterday and they told me it's OK to buy multiple guns on one application and pay the $10 once, if you have the collector status. I'm interested in owning both these 2 guns (I'm interested in other models but I probably should ease into this thing slowly lol), and would like to get a multi-buy discount.

I just got my HQL approved (still waiting for card to arrive in mail, FFL says must have physical card to buy), and I have also applied for collector's permit in the meantime. FFL told me they won't approve it until you buy your first gun after getting HQL, because to be deemed a collector you have to have at least one gun. They suggest I buy one gun first, and then call state police to remind them I now own a gun and please re-evaluate my collector application. Is that how it works?

Easiest way to get MDS is to buy a stripped AR lower, wait the 7 days, then submit the MDC. After the MDC is approved, the 30 restriction is removed, and you can build an AR!

Squaregrouper · Dec 6, 2017

armed_economist said:
Thank you for the inquiry. I'm interested in two guns as my first purchase: Beretta APX and M&P 2.0 FDE 5 inch barrel, perhaps APX as my first buy. Both are 17 rounders, and approved for sale in MD.

For both guns, I find dealers on gunbroker and gun.deals selling for cheaper than my local FFL. After accounting for shipping and transfer fee (if buy online), and sales tax (if buy local), the difference is still more than negligible. If not for that, I would have preferred to support local business.

My local FFL is willing to do transfers on guns they have in stock, and according to older posts I see here, they don't give grief to online buyers unlike some other shops. I went in the shop yesterday, the clerks do seem friendly, helpful and patient. Their transfer fee is $50.

I wanted to ask them if they could come close to the price I found online, but I didn't want to appear rude as a first time visitor and just ask if they price match. How should I ask this, if it's OK to ask?

I didn't know you can pay upfront to get a better deal. I would be very happy to pay in full cash and wait for them to place orders, as long as the total price is comparable to what I can get online.

If I buy online, besides the sale price and shipping (usually there is no tax as dealers of not in MD), there is not other hidden cost, right?

Neither is a super common pistol and there is a good chance your local FFL doesn't have them in stock.
If it were me, I would ask (in person) whether your local FFL would order one- paid in full prior to ordering- for close to what the online seller is asking. Clarify you want to support a local business and you will PAY IN FULL when placing the order. Remind them you will choose them if their OTD price ($50 FFL + shipping considered) is close in price. In the world of Amazon Prime, this is a huge hurdle local FFL's deal with and you spelling out the shipping and transfer fees lets them understand that you "get it".

Once again... "I prefer to support local small businesses" is gold when talking to a mom-n-pop FFL.

armed_economist · Dec 6, 2017

squaregrouper said:
Neither is a super common pistol and there is a good chance your local FFL doesn't have them in stock.
If it were me, I would ask (in person) whether your local FFL would order one- paid in full prior to ordering- for close to what the online seller is asking. Clarify you want to support a local business and you will PAY IN FULL when placing the order. Remind them you will choose them if their OTD price ($50 FFL + shipping considered) is close in price. In the world of Amazon Prime, this is a huge hurdle local FFL's deal with and you spelling out the shipping and transfer fees lets them understand that you "get it".

Once again... "I prefer to support local small businesses" is gold when talking to a mom-n-pop FFL.

I'm surprised that you say they are not common, based on the reviews I have seen, they appear about as popular as most other polymer striker fires not named glock. The FFL I visited just sold out APX, and had a black M&P on display (4.25 inch barrel), which is more common than FDE I suppose.

I may try your advice and see what they say. The unfortunate thing is, if I can find online dealers that are willing to ship full size mags to out of state, that just makes buying local even less appealing, because they can give only 10-round mags or no mags at all for M&P 2.0 FDE.

ras_oscar · Dec 7, 2017

The part of the purchase that runs afoul MD law is the "offer for sale" language. Technically, if you were to drive to a coffee shop in PA and complete the online transaction, requesting split shipping, it SHOULD be legal. As a practical matter, however, there is likely no way an online retailer could verify your physical location when you complete the electronic transaction, only your shipping and billing address. Another option is to drive to another state, pay for the purchase, take possession of the mags and ship the regulated forearms less mags to the MD ffl to complete the transfer.

danb · Dec 7, 2017

Gotta watch out for armed economists. One armed economists are especially rare. They say one armed economists dont exist.

{Insert gratuitous economist joke here}

OP, for mags, drive to PA or VA. Or Delaware. Its 40 minutes in any direction to another state where they wont hassle you. There are some good shops in Loudon VA for instance that have ample stock.

armed_economist said:
I just got my HQL approved (still waiting for card to arrive in mail, FFL says must have physical card to buy), and I have also applied for collector's permit in the meantime. FFL told me they won't approve it until you buy your first gun after getting HQL, because to be deemed a collector you have to have at least one gun. They suggest I buy one gun first, and then call state police to remind them I now own a gun and please re-evaluate my collector application. Is that how it works?

On the 77r, there is an exception for a multi-gun discount. I cannot recall how it works, but I think you can still get two (but would have to wait 60 days for another). I would not waste time submitting the DC letter until youve picked up the first one or two. It takes 4 weeks anyway, so by the time you get, you would be eligible for the next purchase anyway. Ask your FFL about the multi gun discount thing.

But honestly, a one armed economist does not need two guns.

danb · Dec 7, 2017

http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Documents/Licensing%20Portal%20-%20User's%20Guide.pdf

p18

On occasion, as determined individually by each Maryland Firearms Dealer, a Dealer may offer their customer a discount if the customer buys 2 regulated firearms on a single day. The customer may then complete a single application and pay a single application fee. The Dealer designated the Application Type to be a Dealer Discount and includes both regulated firearms on the application before submission of the application to Licensing Division. Upon approval of the application, the customer may pick up BOTH regulated firearms on the 8th day, but the customer is then restricted to waiting 60 days before taking possession of another regulated firearm.

armed_economist · Dec 7, 2017

danb said:
Gotta watch out for armed economists. One armed economists are especially rare. They say one armed economists dont exist.

{Insert gratuitous economist joke here}

OP, for mags, drive to PA or VA. Or Delaware. Its 40 minutes in any direction to another state where they wont hassle you. There are some good shops in Loudon VA for instance that have ample stock.

On the 77r, there is an exception for a multi-gun discount. I cannot recall how it works, but I think you can still get two (but would have to wait 60 days for another). I would not waste time submitting the DC letter until youve picked up the first one or two. It takes 4 weeks anyway, so by the time you get, you would be eligible for the next purchase anyway. Ask your FFL about the multi gun discount thing.

But honestly, a one armed economist does not need two guns.

That's a good one

. Industry economists usually have one hand, whichever one their clients need. Academic and policy-making economists are often the two-handed types.

It's not difficult to drive to VA and just buy full mags in a store, but my problem is that if I were to buy a gun in MD (from online dealer of local FFL), there would be no discount if I want the gun itself but not 10 round neutered magazines. My FFL told me, for the M&P 2.0 FDE, they will have to sell me the gun without any magazine at all (10 round mags not produced in that color), but still at full price, and buying 3 mags cost an additional $100, basically I would pay twice for those mags. This is why I'm inclined to ask an online dealer to ship the gun to my FFL and mags to an address in VA, if I can find one willing to do so that is.

mk13 · Dec 7, 2017

FYI
Cabelas in DE will not sell any handguns that come with magazines holding more than ten rounds to Marylanders. They won't remove them and discard either.

But I can buy and walk out with all the hi caps I can carry from off the shelf.

I will use them for what I need but there is no love for Cabelas.

danb · Dec 7, 2017

armed_economist said:
It's not difficult to drive to VA and just buy full mags in a store, but my problem is that if I were to buy a gun in MD (from online dealer of local FFL), there would be no discount if I want the gun itself but not 10 round neutered magazines. My FFL told me, for the M&P 2.0 FDE, they will have to sell me the gun without any magazine at all (10 round mags not produced in that color), but still at full price, and buying 3 mags cost an additional $100, basically I would pay twice for those mags. This is why I'm inclined to ask an online dealer to ship the gun to my FFL and mags to an address in VA, if I can find one willing to do so that is.

With the new MSP guidance recently issued on this very subject, unfortunately you are SOL. FFLs on Gunbroker are not always MD friendly either. Too small a market to be bothered.

If you are buyung two guns for cash, I am surprised you cant work out a deal. Maybe you can sell the 10 rnd neutered mag on ebay.

Mark75H · Dec 7, 2017

You are chasing your own tail around in circles. If you want the uncommon handgun in MD, its going to cost you a mag, that's all there is to it. By the time a FFL packages and ships the mag ... that is the cost to the FFL in his time and effort? You expect this service for free?

Rob R. · Dec 7, 2017

mk13 said:
FYI
Cabelas in DE will not sell any handguns that come with magazines holding more than ten rounds to Marylanders. They won't remove them and discard either.

But I can buy and walk out with all the hi caps I can carry from off the shelf.

I will use them for what I need but there is no love for Cabelas.

Last fall I was beyond pissed when they declined to sell me a heavy barrel AR because it came with a single 30rd mag that I insisted they keep or discard. I was tempted to drag their entire cart/display full of magpul mags to the checkout line to make a point. Their company SOP is full of sh*t, just decided to make up their own senseless rules on top of our already stupid state laws.
Keep in mind I bought several gift cards for this purchase and waited 2hrs to be shown their company SOP for Maryland residents

danb · Dec 7, 2017

Mark75H said:
You are chasing your own tail around in circles. If you want the uncommon handgun in MD, its going to cost you a mag, that's all there is to it. By the time a FFL packages and ships the mag ... that is the cost to the FFL in his time and effort? You expect this service for free?

Having a mag shipped to your brother in PA will cost you a bottle of bourbon to free the hostage. Don't ask me how I know.

armed_economist · Dec 7, 2017

How does buying from gun shows work? If I go to a gun show in VA, buy a 17 round gun, can I drive away with the high capacity magazines, and have them ship the rest of the package to my local FFL for pickup after purchase application? Do I pay VA sales tax in this case?

Squaregrouper · Dec 7, 2017

armed_economist said:
How does buying from gun shows work? If I go to a gun show in VA, buy a 17 round gun, can I drive away with the high capacity magazines, and have them ship the rest of the package to my local FFL for pickup after purchase application? Do I pay VA sales tax in this case?

The VA dealer/FFL would have to transfer it to a MD FFL and you would do paperwork in MD. Federally, handguns can only be purchased in your state of residence.
Legally, yes you can take the 17rd mags home with you from VA. They have to enter MD on your person; you cannot mail them to yourself. I know, it makes no sense whatsoever. There are usually one or two MD FFL's at the Chantilly VA and York PA shows that handle transfers.

eruby · Dec 7, 2017

squaregrouper said:
The VA dealer/FFL would have to transfer it to a MD FFL and you would do paperwork in MD. Federally, handguns can only be purchased in your state of residence.
Legally, yes you can take the 17rd mags home with you from VA. They have to enter MD on your person; you cannot mail them to yourself. I know, it makes no sense whatsoever. There are usually one or two MD FFL's at the Chantilly VA and York PA shows that handle transfers.

Unless you are Louis Dega. :innocent0

Squaregrouper · Dec 7, 2017

eruby said:
Unless you are Louis Dega.

Once again, Google was required to get an Eruby reference.

Biggfoot44 · Dec 7, 2017

Ultimate bottom line - Living in Maryland sucks . Not recieving magazines that otherwise would have come included is indeed a * suck factor * , but far from from the most significant.

Coping options :

1. Just accept it as a fact of living in PRM
2. Refuse to accept , and move across a State Line , and commute back to your job . Your life will improve in innumerable other ways too.
2 Collect revolvers, 1911's , and other single stack pistols .

Biggfoot44 · Dec 8, 2017

Semi- Thread Jack

Not picking on the OP of this thread , rather that it would be educational for some of our members newer to the firearms world .

What is a * common firearm * ? Not in the Constitutional sense, but the ownership and commerce sense. Simplified , there are a crap load of them in ownership/ usage , usually been in popular circulation for a significant period of time , and lots of commerce in parts & accesories , be they some combination of OEM , OEM equivalents, or more unique aftermarket.

The firearms media ( paper publications , websites, etc ) focus much of their editorial content on things that are New ! or Substantially " Improved" ! Advertising payolla aside , the cummulative thinking is readers will purchase / click on the publication / site to find out about what's new and different . Usually with at least headline and cover blurbs using dramatic hyperbole .

I have no first hand experience with the APX good or bad . Anything that was a serious contender for US Mil service pistol trials is probably reasonably well made and designed , and doesn't totally suck .

But alas , it is not yet * common * May well become so in time , but for now is a new offering from major mfg , still awaiting a reaction from the marketplace .

Rejected by Dealer to Ship Mags Out of State

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