Encounter at the AGC Pistol Range

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Overwatch326

    Active Member
    Aug 13, 2016
    365
    Hey folks,

    So, I noticed the forum for the AGC isn't available for posting anymore, and I wasn't really sure where else to put this. Long story short, kinda got into it briefly with a dude at the AGC Pistol Range this weekend who just straight up ignored a cease-fire call. It's been bugging me since, and I wanted to ask people's opinion on what I should have done; I'm a fairly new member to the AGC still, so I know the rules and regs, but not where the fine lines should be.

    I do want to start by saying the point of this post isn't to bitch about what happened, but to honestly ask what I should have done/should do if this happens again in the future; hope it doesn't come off like I'm just pissing and moaning.

    I was at the AGC with two guests; we were at the pistol range since the rifle range was at max capacity and had people waiting. About a half hour after we got there and set up, this older guy (mid-50s/early 60's, I'd guess), shows up with two guests, and is training his wife(?) on a XD; weirdly enough, they had the target at like less than 5 yards, so I don't even know if they were making sure they were hitting the backstop. I was keeping a close eye on my people, so I didn't pay much attention to the guy until later on, as he was toward the opposite end of the line from us.

    We were shooting for about two hours; the range got a bit more crowded, but everybody was being pretty good about timing cease-fires on the half-hour in sync with the Rifle range, when we heard them call it. I should mention, there was no RSO on duty at the pistol range, which isn't unusual in my experience at the AGC. Me and my guests were getting ready to call it for the day, and there were a few people who'd unfortunately gotten there like 10 minutes after the last cease-fire and were waiting, so I was listening for the call over at the rifle range. Like normal, at 3:30, I called cease-fire when I heard the RSO on the speakers at the rifle range, everybody passed the call down the line, and every shooter responded accordingly... except this dude.

    He had his wife with the XD, was standing past the firing line with her, coaching her, and they just kept doing their thing; I figured maybe they didn't hear, but the folks past them all the way at the opposite end had made their weapons safe, and stepped off the concrete, even. We called it a few more times, more shots fired in response, so I went down the line and tried to get the guy's attention. I was behind the firing line, I made sure I didn't sneak up on them or anything. Dude whips around to me, shouts, "You can wait," and then has his wife crack off another two shots, while everyone just stands there and stares; it's probably been a good two minutes since we first called cease-fire. Then the guy finally turns to me, and is like, "What, you wanna call a ceasefire?" I just calmly--not gonna lie, internally pissed--told him we'd been calling it, that people were waiting, and walked back to my lane.

    So... TL;DR what should I have done? There was no RSO, and I can't leave my guests unattended, but the dude just straight up ignored multiple calls for cease-fire. Regs say that if a cease-fire is called--doesn't matter by who--you obey it and make your weapon safe; it's not like we were just calling it randomly, either. Is this just an obvious case of, "You met an ******* at the range, get over it," or should I have taken it up with a RSO?

    Again, I'm not posting this to bitch, but it just didn't sit right with me. Maybe I'm being a Karen about this, I don't know. Thoughts?
     

    parttimer

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 10, 2013
    1,321
    Calvert
    Cease fire means cease fire immediately not when you feel like it. To me that is a safety concern.
    I am not a member of AGC and have never been there but, other places I have been usually had a mechanism of reporting members that were in violation of the rules. At the last club I belonged to every shooter had to sign into a log book when they were shooting with the time and what lane they were on. If AGC has something like this it should be easy enough to identify who he is.

    This guy should be reported. There are plenty of rules at gun clubs that a violation of can easily be brushed off as no big deal. Unsafe gun handling or failing to cease fire when it is called are two that should never be ignored. His statement that you can wait shows he intentionally violated a major safety rule. Sure you were doing a cease fire for target changes this time but, what if someone was injured or there was something unsafe down range he didn’t see and he decided to ignore the ceasefire?
    This is one of those times it’s not being a Karen to report someone. That dude needs to understand where the line is an that he crossed it. Report him.
     
    As stated above, cease fire means just that. Anyone can call it at any time. You should have went and found a RSO. I'm sure the other shooters would have confirmed your story.
    FWIW- You can leave your guests unattended- provided they remain off the pad and your firearms are cased or have ECI's installed.
     

    Jake4U

    Now with 67% more FJB
    Sep 1, 2018
    1,150
    Should have reported him to an RSO. That was a level 4 infraction that would have resulted in his badge being pulled.
     

    Neutron

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2014
    1,532
    severna park
    I just went through the RSO training course not too long ago and yes anyone can call a cease fire and that guy should be reported. That is a serious safety violation and that guy needs an attitude adjustment regarding the range rules. I don't know the specifics of the range rules at AGC, but I'm willing to bet there is a mechanism to get the violator a few months vacation from the range.
     

    Jake4U

    Now with 67% more FJB
    Sep 1, 2018
    1,150
    I just went through the RSO training course not too long ago and yes anyone can call a cease fire and that guy should be reported. That is a serious safety violation and that guy needs an attitude adjustment regarding the range rules. I don't know the specifics of the range rules at AGC, but I'm willing to bet there is a mechanism to get the violator a few months vacation from the range.

    As a member of MSI's AGC safety committee, you are correct except that it was such a serious infraction his badge would have been pulled at the AGC. He'd have to convince his club to appeal on his behalf to the AGC leadership for him.

    I doubt MSI would as I certainly wouldn't support it being returned.
     

    engineerbrian

    JMB fan club
    Sep 3, 2010
    10,148
    Fredneck
    If he Legitimately didn't hear the command I wouldn't sweat it to bad, but as soon as he told me I could wait, I would have called the RSO and grabbed a bag of popcorn.
     
    As a member of MSI's AGC safety committee, you are correct except that it was such a serious infraction his badge would have been pulled at the AGC. He'd have to convince his club to appeal on his behalf to the AGC leadership for him.

    I doubt MSI would as I certainly wouldn't support it being returned.

    Assuming it went down the way the OP described, I would be the second "Nay" from MSI.
     

    Mr. Ed

    This IS my Happy Face
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2009
    7,899
    Edgewater
    Cease fire means cease fire immediately not when you feel like it. To me that is a safety concern.
    I am not a member of AGC and have never been there but, other places I have been usually had a mechanism of reporting members that were in violation of the rules. At the last club I belonged to every shooter had to sign into a log book when they were shooting with the time and what lane they were on. If AGC has something like this it should be easy enough to identify who he is.

    This guy should be reported. There are plenty of rules at gun clubs that a violation of can easily be brushed off as no big deal. Unsafe gun handling or failing to cease fire when it is called are two that should never be ignored. His statement that you can wait shows he intentionally violated a major safety rule. Sure you were doing a cease fire for target changes this time but, what if someone was injured or there was something unsafe down range he didn’t see and he decided to ignore the ceasefire?
    This is one of those times it’s not being a Karen to report someone. That dude needs to understand where the line is an that he crossed it. Report him.

    As stated above, cease fire means just that. Anyone can call it at any time. You should have went and found a RSO. I'm sure the other shooters would have confirmed your story.
    FWIW- You can leave your guests unattended- provided they remain off the pad and your firearms are cased or have ECI's installed.

    Should have reported him to an RSO. That was a level 4 infraction that would have resulted in his badge being pulled.

    I just went through the RSO training course not too long ago and yes anyone can call a cease fire and that guy should be reported. That is a serious safety violation and that guy needs an attitude adjustment regarding the range rules. I don't know the specifics of the range rules at AGC, but I'm willing to bet there is a mechanism to get the violator a few months vacation from the range.

    Ed Zachery. What if there had been a safety issue downrange? A called cease fire is not optional. It is mandatory. It would be different if you were asking when it would be convenient... from what you stated it had already been called. End of discussion.
     

    Jake4U

    Now with 67% more FJB
    Sep 1, 2018
    1,150
    Mr. Ed gets it. Anyone can call a cease fire at AGC as the range is owned by the members and ultimately safety is all our responsibility.
     

    Mr. Ed

    This IS my Happy Face
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2009
    7,899
    Edgewater
    Giving this some more thought... every time I've shot at the pistol range we would ask our neighbors if they were okay with calling a cease fire, so it was a mutually agreed action. Is it possible that the stubborn guy thought it was that sort of request, rather than a command?

    Only one time have I ever actually called an emergency cease fire, and that was when a guy started shooting (position 25) while an elderly couple were still hanging targets at position one on the pistol range.

    Just curious. Sometimes there's another side to a coin.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    "There was no RSO" seems to me to be the operative problem.

    When there is no RSO the ranges at AGC are "self regulating" - "self regulating" means just that, there has to be a common understanding / agreement to call cease fire among everyone. There was no cease fire "command" here. No one really has the authority to "call" a cease fire when the range is self regulating, it's more like a polite request. People can say no ("let me finish this mag" etc.). It happens. The response "you can wait" seems to me it was interpreted as a not-so-polite request. Or more like "you don't really have the authority to boss me"

    Did someone make the OP the RSO or give them authority? No. Some people declined the request for a cease fire. It happens.

    Its not unusual for the pistol range to be self regulating, but its also not unusual when there is a single RSO for people to wait until the RSO comes over from the rifle range to call cease fire after they finish there.

    This experience is exactly why I wait for the orange hat to call cease fire when there is a lot of people, rather than take over. I would have gone to get the RSO to call cease fire myself.

    My feeling is that no rules were broken here, just a disagreement who was really in charge. The answer is, no one really, which is the problem.
     

    Gcs7th

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 26, 2012
    1,280
    AGC
    On the pistol range I usually get a consensus to a ceasefire in a few minutes. I’ve been on the range when people need them every 10-15 minutes or once every couple hours. It really depends who your shooting with.

    As for the other persons attitude I always recommend in my safety walkthrough you add the RSO number into your phone. You can use this to report an unsafe person, suspicious person on the range, incident etc.

    Range Officer:
    +1 (410) 461-8532
     

    Jake4U

    Now with 67% more FJB
    Sep 1, 2018
    1,150
    "There was no RSO" seems to me to be the operative problem.

    When there is no RSO the ranges at AGC are "self regulating" - "self regulating" means just that, there has to be a common understanding / agreement to call cease fire among everyone. There was no cease fire "command" here. No one really has the authority to "call" a cease fire when the range is self regulating, it's more like a polite request. People can say no ("let me finish this mag" etc.). It happens. The response "you can wait" seems to me it was interpreted as a not-so-polite request. Or more like "you don't really have the authority to boss me"

    Did someone make the OP the RSO or give them authority? No. Some people declined the request for a cease fire. It happens.

    Its not unusual for the pistol range to be self regulating, but its also not unusual when there is a single RSO for people to wait until the RSO comes over from the rifle range to call cease fire after they finish there.

    This experience is exactly why I wait for the orange hat to call cease fire when there is a lot of people, rather than take over. I would have gone to get the RSO to call cease fire myself.

    My feeling is that no rules were broken here, just a disagreement who was really in charge. The answer is, no one really, which is the problem.

    Disagree completely. The rest of the line called cease fire. It's one thing to be an ass and keep shooting, it's another to ignore the cease fire called - because someone else on the line may be a new shooter without a clue who steps off the pad toward their target. Safety is everyone's responsibility, even assholes.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    There is a difference, in most cases on most ranges(not a member of AGC), between a "cease fire" call and a "cold range" request.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,931
    Messages
    7,259,512
    Members
    33,350
    Latest member
    Rotorboater

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom