Can a felon shoot rental guns

Archeryrob · Dec 5, 2019

So, if you know of a felon and they posted a picture of killing a deer, on FB, with a rifle.

What would you do? Asking for a friend.

Allen65 · Dec 5, 2019

esqappellate said:
No, the ban on possession includes *any* possession or constructive possession, no matter how temporary. Note that the applicable exception to (d)(5) and (g)(5) is:

Exceptions.--Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been
lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is--
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

Now, it also depends on where the tourist is from. Some tourist aliens are admitted to the United without any visa if they meet the requirements of the visa waiver program. See https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-visit/visa-waiver-program.html If you are admitted without any visa, then the bar on possession does not apply to you at all.

I guess it's a good thing there have been major advances in artificial intelligence in the past 10 years because it's getting to the point where I will need to be carrying a lawyer with me at all times if I want to remain a firearms owner. It would be handy to have a portable, real-time legal advisor AI that runs on a smart phone, monitors the video and audio around me, and alarms when I'm about do do something against any Federal, state, or municipal law. I can't imagine it would have long battery life given our ever growing body of complicated, interacting laws. :sad20:

platoonDaddy · Dec 5, 2019

ericoak said:
You forgot Hollywood celebrities.

What he said!

Mike · Dec 5, 2019

Allen65 said:
I guess it's a good thing there have been major advances in artificial intelligence in the past 10 years because it's getting to the point where I will need to be carrying a lawyer with me at all times if I want to remain a firearms owner. It would be handy to have a portable, real-time legal advisor AI that runs on a smart phone, monitors the video and audio around me, and alarms when I'm about do do something against any Federal, state, or municipal law. I can't imagine it would have long battery life given our ever growing body of complicated, interacting laws.

What is the saying... three felonies a day? The lifetime politicians have put a yoke of tyranny upon us because too many useful idiots have voted to keep them in office. Career politician should be a felony, not a legal choice for a non-job.

lemmdus · Dec 5, 2019

ras_oscar said:
The law does not classify black powder/ muzzle loaders as firearms

SHHHH! Do not give liberals more information. No felons can not own BP arms. :innocent0

daggo66 · Dec 5, 2019

lazarus said:
That’s a big no. Possession covers physical access. So yeah, renting would be possession. It would not be a transfer.

You can own a gun and be a felon, but you cannot have possession of constructive possession. So I can buy a gun and an FFL could hold it for me for example...but I can’t take possession of it.

Just like if you become a prohibited person. The state doesn’t suddenly own your guns. They might seize them, but you can absolutely legally have some non-prohibited person take possession of them (so long as they won’t transfer them back to you).

That’s not entirely accurate. When a felon has his firearms seized, they can be held at an FFL, Sold, or transferred to another person who is not prohibited. They cannot simply be placed in the possession of a non prohibited person.

esqappellate · Dec 5, 2019

Allen65 said:
I guess it's a good thing there have been major advances in artificial intelligence in the past 10 years because it's getting to the point where I will need to be carrying a lawyer with me at all times if I want to remain a firearms owner. It would be handy to have a portable, real-time legal advisor AI that runs on a smart phone, monitors the video and audio around me, and alarms when I'm about do do something against any Federal, state, or municipal law. I can't imagine it would have long battery life given our ever growing body of complicated, interacting laws.

Lawyers are generally too heavy to carry around. And firearms lawyers who actually would know this arcane stuff are pretty damn rare to start with. IN short, most everyone is doomed.

rseymorejr · Dec 5, 2019

Archeryrob said:
So, if you know of a felon and they posted a picture of killing a deer, on FB, with a rifle.

What would you do? Asking for a friend.

I'd probably mind my own business

grimnar15 · Dec 5, 2019

If felons can have their right to vote reinstated, then felons can have their right to bear arms reinstated.

daggo66 · Dec 6, 2019

grimnar15 said:
If felons can have their right to vote reinstated, then felons can have their right to bear arms reinstated.

That’s the way it should be!

Doobie · Dec 6, 2019

grimnar15 said:
If felons can have their right to vote reinstated, then felons can have their right to bear arms reinstated.

So when liberal politicians succeed in giving inmates their right to vote back, will that muddy the waters and open another can of worms?

Gizmo98 · Dec 6, 2019

Doobie said:
So when liberal politicians succeed in giving inmates their right to vote back, will that muddy the waters and open another can of worms?

I've had this discussion several times. When I say felons shouldn't be prohibited from owning guns, people look at me like I'm crazy. They basically say, "It is known" without any further thought.

I always ask if they think the prohibition should be due to ongoing punishment or for public safety. No one thinks it should be punishment. They paid their debt to society, right?

I then ask how it makes anyone safer if the felon is unarmed. "Well, if they lose their mind, they can't shoot anyone." I then ask why they can't stab, run over, blow up, or do any number of bad things to others.

My point is that the person is either safe or not. If he's so dangerous you're worried about him shooting someone, maybe he shouldn't be walking around (even without a legally owned firearm).

It's basically the same argument against red flag laws. How many here are against those but are fine with felons being prohibited from owning guns?

If you're making an argument that prohibition from owning guns should be part of an ongoing punishment, then I can't really argue with you. The argument would hold more weight if the punishment encompassed all civil rights, though.

dblas · Dec 6, 2019

Gizmo98 said:
I've had this discussion several times. When I say felons shouldn't be prohibited from owning guns, people look at me like I'm crazy. They basically say, "It is known" without any further thought.

I always ask if they think the prohibition should be due to ongoing punishment or for public safety. No one thinks it should be punishment. They paid their debt to society, right?

I then ask how it makes anyone safer if the felon is unarmed. "Well, if they lose their mind, they can't shoot anyone." I then ask why they can't stab, run over, blow up, or do any number of bad things to others.

My point is that the person is either safe or not. If he's so dangerous you're worried about him shooting someone, maybe he shouldn't be walking around (even without a legally owned firearm).

It's basically the same argument against red flag laws. How many here are against those but are fine with felons being prohibited from owning guns?

If you're making an argument that prohibition from owning guns should be part of an ongoing punishment, then I can't really argue with you. The argument would hold more weight if the punishment encompassed all civil rights, though.

I whole heartedly agree with this. Once someone is no longer in the judicial/corrections system (i.e. they have completed their sentence, probation, and/or parole) then they should get ALL of their rights back, I really don't care what crime they committed.

If they are deemed to dangerous to have ALL of their rights restored, then they should remain a part of the corrections system, thus not allowing them to have their right. If the government doesn't want to do that, then maybe the government should some of it's rights restrained?

mstrmstr · Dec 11, 2019

NO.. rules are a Felon can't even be in a home with a firearm..in fact he cannot legally be in a gun store. He definitely cannot be in a car with a gun..

rseymorejr · Dec 11, 2019

mstrmstr said:
NO.. rules are a Felon can't even be in a home with a firearm..in fact he cannot legally be in a gun store. He definitely cannot be in a car with a gun..

So, felons can't shop at Walmart?

RoadDawg · Dec 11, 2019

huesmann said:
RoadDawg said:

Repaid debt??? Not hardly.
Until that murderer can bring their victim back to life... or the rapist unrape his victim... or the robber/burglar give the sense of security back to their victims... staying someplace in time out does not repay any debt to society. It merely punished the felon in an attempt to teach them not to do it again. Who ever came up with that repaid debt line... needs to rethink what repayment means.

The renter of a full auto firearm at the range can not be a felon. And AIUI... a shooting range which rents full auto firearms... does so under special ATF rules which allow and heavily restrict the practice. Call the ATF or a full auto range for details.

Click to expand...

The sentences handed down by the courts are what we, as a society, have agreed to as the punishment for the crime. Once that punishment has been meted out and completed, an offender is considered to have paid his/her debt to society.

Now you may feel that the penalties are insufficient. And that is your right in this country. And as a citizen you are more than welcome to start a movement to increase them. However, just because you feel they're insufficient doesn't mean everyone else thinks they are.

I do not believe that I in any way stated that I require anyone to see it the way I do. I stated my opinion in the matter.

But since you bring it up...

If you or a loved one becomes the victim of any violent or felony crimes... How are you going to feel when the violator steps out of jail on the last day of the sentence? Is your life restored in ANY way to what it was prior to the crime? Who gives a damn about any "debt to society"? What about the debt to the victim?

The folks who spout that "paid his debt to society" BS... are usually those who are advocating for criminal rights and sympathy... And those who have not been victims.

If they cannot restore your life or the life of their victim to what it was prior to their crime... NO debt has been paid. A punishment has been meted out and nothing more. "Society" is not the victim.

If that was the way things were suppose to be... someone could borrow money from you... spend a few days in timeout somewhere and claim that you have been paid in full. Nice work if you can get it.

I had to deal with victims of real crimes for decades... I saw their faces as they walked out of court knowing that they would NEVER see true justice or recompense for their loss. Who is "society" that they should get paid when others are the real victims of crimes?

dblas · Dec 11, 2019

mstrmstr said:
NO.. rules are a Felon can't even be in a home with a firearm..in fact he cannot legally be in a gun store. He definitely cannot be in a car with a gun..

Ummm, completely incorrect.

Samlab · Dec 11, 2019

To the fellow on first page....incorrect. A Felon is not allowed to purchase or be in possession of a weapon on his her person. But now it gets sticky....that is factually outside their residence if they live alone. If they are married, and the wife owns the gun, the weapon is in fact allowed and they do have access to the weapon inside the home only. How screwy is that? Maybe someone in Annapolis that knows something elementary about weapons can rewrite the law to include either a waiver or restriction that the weapon in the Felons domicile be locked away in a safe at all times. Last time I checked is most criminals are typically in possession of weapons that are stolen.Just saying....

TangoSierra27 · Dec 11, 2019

Hello, I did a little more research on this subject. One of the reasons that felons are prohibited from handling, firing, or owning firearms is the high rate of repeat offenses committed by felons. You can find these and other reasons in Maryland Judicial review and the US Federal government National DOJ review. There is a multitude of information that can be accessed using the internet. I agree once a person has completed their sentence including any parole, probation, and restitution to their victim, their lost rights should be reinstated in full. However given the high recidivism rates and current political climate there is very little chance of change on the horizon. I saw in one comment about felons not being able to shop at Walmart, which is untrue and not helpful in getting anything changed. I hope you find this information helpful.

rseymorejr · Dec 11, 2019

Samlab said:
Maybe someone in Annapolis that knows something elementary about weapons can rewrite the law ...

That's the last damn thing we need

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