AR lower "pistol"

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  • Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    That is a complete AR-15 lower with a stock. It is not a rifle. You can pull the stock off and put a pistol upper on it, as long as you do not put a rifle upper on it first.

    It does not matter what the 77R says. Rifle, pistol or other. It is what it is and that is "other".

    If it was a rifle, it would have to have an heavy barrel or you could not purchase it in MD. Also, a MD legal rifle requires no 77R, or is cash and carry.

    This is the correct answer to all of this. An AR lower is not a pistol, and is not a rifle until it either has a) a rifled barrel AND a stock on at the same time, in which case it is a rifle, or b) a rifled barrel and is designed to be fired by one hand (i.e. has no stock) in which case it is a pistol.

    I think I'm confusing everyone. I'll post this again.

    If I buy this (https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...eceiver-complete-ambidextrous-prod108056.aspx) will I have to go through the waiting period and have an HQL to get it?

    If no, then if I put a pistol brace on it does it become an illegal pistol?

    You would have to do a 77R and waiting period because MSP is breaking the law, but you are not required to do an HQL.

    Thanks. Sorry I made it so complicated.

    You're not - it's an unnecessarily complex area of law thanks to our stupid state.

    That leads to the next question:

    So I take off the stock and put on the pistol brace. Good to go... Then I use it in a home defense situation or a cop questions me at a range or some other slim possibility that I have to prove it is legal.

    How do you prove it was never a rifle first so it's legal?

    You don't, but that's because the burden of proof is on the state to prove it was a rifle first, and they can't.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    I don't know what is an " SBR Brace " . Perhaps you meant an ARM Brace, such as is semi- commonly used on pistols ?

    A VIRGIN Lower Reciever is just a lower reciever, even if it has a shoulder thing that goes up attatched , unless and until it also has a barrel attatched at same time .


    Yes you may purchase the linked lower reciever assy . Yes, you will wait 7 days, and a 77R will be involved . No, HQL is not required .

    *******************

    Above is 100% fact . I will continue with Biggfoot's recomended * Wise * practices , It can be debated that certain grey areas can be more deeply danced into , but this will be * wise * approach .

    Once you pickup your virgin reciever assy with shoulder thing , imeadately remove said shoulder thing .

    It would be wise to already have your pistol buffer tube on hand , along with necessary tools, or lined up a friend with the tools .

    If you don't have another AR platform Rifle , do not retain the shoulder thing . A good gift or Karma if comes to that.

    If you don't already have an AR pattern pistol, or actual Machine Gun , do not aquire your 16in> barrel until the Virgin Lower is wearing it's pistol buffer tube .


    ( Yes , I know most of the contrary arguments , I'm giving conservative advice to avoid any potential issues .)
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    Why are you spending $575 on a lower, plus transfer fee, plus $10 MSP Fee, and then spend another $120 on a brace?

    I was just googling LWRCI lowers because it's the one rifle I do have. I quickly realized they are priced way higher than most. However, I am concerned of the tolerances of trying to match uppers and lowers and don't want to go too cheap. One of these days I need to take your class to learn how to do all this properly.
     

    tailgunner

    Active Member
    Oct 18, 2013
    109
    PAsadena Md.
    Any are lower you buy in md (with a serial number) will have to go thru the same waiting period as a handgun. I have bought both complete and stripped flowers and installed them with short barrels and use the sb3 tactical braces. I don't swap out my ar lowers with the rifle uppers it came from.
     

    SpikeRR

    Member
    Sep 13, 2018
    27
    I purchased a complete AR 15 lower from an IP here cash & carry with no 77r, just the 4473 form. Can you not just purchase a complete pistol lower and mate it with a complete upper or build the upper yourself?
     

    KevinK

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 24, 2008
    4,973
    Carroll County, Md
    I purchased a complete AR 15 lower from an IP here cash & carry with no 77r, just the 4473 form. Can you not just purchase a complete pistol lower and mate it with a complete upper or build the upper yourself?
    Are you saying a .223/5.56 lower was purchased cash and carry, no 7 day wait?

    I don't think that's kosher.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    I purchased a complete AR 15 lower from an IP here cash & carry with no 77r, just the 4473 form. Can you not just purchase a complete pistol lower and mate it with a complete upper or build the upper yourself?
    Not kosher, buddy. MSP has started that stripped lowers require a 77r. You are liable to be in hot water, as is your FFL.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    I purchased a complete AR 15 lower from an IP here cash & carry with no 77r, just the 4473 form. Can you not just purchase a complete pistol lower and mate it with a complete upper or build the upper yourself?

    On the 4473, it mustve been transferred as a rifle. You can't turn it into a pistol unless it goes back through a ffl for more paperwork.
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    On the 4473, it mustve been transferred as a rifle. You can't turn it into a pistol unless it goes back through a ffl for more paperwork.

    Without the upper, it is still considered a stripped lower, no matter if the stock is on there or not.

    Exactly.

    Technically, what box was checked on the 4473 has no bearing on the legal status of the lower. It only matters what physical features it had, and when and in what order it had them.

    If it never had a rifled barrel and a stock installed at the same time, it has never been a rifle and was only a lower.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Exactly.

    Technically, what box was checked on the 4473 has no bearing on the legal status of the lower. It only matters what physical features it had, and when and in what order it had them.

    If it never had a rifled barrel and a stock installed at the same time, it has never been a rifle and was only a lower.

    Yay! We agree on something for once! :lol2:
     

    SpikeRR

    Member
    Sep 13, 2018
    27
    Without the upper, it is still considered a stripped lower, no matter if the stock is on there or not.

    Interesting. I was under the impression that a complete lower with a stock or brace can be transferred as either a riifle or pistol.

    Mind you, I went to the dealer expecting to fill out a 77r and started the online process prior. I was surprised when they said I didn't need it.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Interesting. I was under the impression that a complete lower with a stock or brace can be transferred as either a riifle or pistol.

    Mind you, I went to the dealer expecting to fill out a 77r and started the online process prior. I was surprised when they said I didn't need it.
    You face serious issues in the future, due to the incompetence of the FFL. The FFL faces grave consequences because of what they did. You need to get a copy of the 4473 and find out how it was transferred. Rifle, pistol, other. If it was transferred as a rifle, you are screwed without the HBAR upper that it should have come with. The dealer is screwed because they transferred a regulated firearm without a 77r.

    I won't give you any advice on how to unfvck your situation.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    You face serious issues in the future, due to the incompetence of the FFL. The FFL faces grave consequences because of what they did. You need to get a copy of the 4473 and find out how it was transferred. Rifle, pistol, other. If it was transferred as a rifle, you are screwed without the HBAR upper that it should have come with. The dealer is screwed because they transferred a regulated firearm without a 77r.

    I won't give you any advice on how to unfvck your situation.

    From his build thread, it looks like EA and he bought the faxon heavy barrel, along with all the components for the upper at the same time as the complete lower.
     

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