HQL is saving lives, who knew?

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  • hodgepodge

    Senior Member (Gold)
    Sep 3, 2009
    10,092
    Arnold, MD
    In a op-ed in the Annapolis Capital, Froshie cites a (gasp) published study proving FSA works.

    Crifasi, et al., “The Initial Impact of the Firearm Safety Act of 2013 on the Supply of Crime Handguns in Baltimore.” — Russell Sage Foundation, Journal of the Social Sciences.

    https://www.rsfjournal.org/doi/abs/10.7758/RSF.2017.3.5.06

    Oh look! They're from the Bloomberg School at Hopkins.

    Initial issues:

    They cite Webster's studies. The self-licking ice cream cone.
    They look at gun diversion rates since 2013, but appear to omit data showing decreases before that period. We were in a generally downward trend.

    When a gun trace was successful, the data included information on original sale date and purchaser, recovery date, possessor, and the type of incident in which the gun was recovered.


    No data on how many were/were not successful.

    To assess awareness and perceived impact of the FSA among persons legally prohibited from purchasing or possessing guns, we included four FSA-specific questions in a multipart survey designed to appraise gun availability in the underground gun market in Baltimore. Using a convenience sampling methodology, we administered the survey in May and June 2016 to 195 men on parole or probation in Baltimore. The selection was to identify persons with recent interaction with the criminal justice system that would prohibit them from purchasing or possessing a gun under Maryland state law.

    Survey respondents were recruited outside parole and probation offices in Baltimore. Men who asserted that they were over the age of eighteen, currently on parole or probation, and Baltimore residents were invited to complete the survey after eligibility was determined via screening questions.


    This is not a reliable group.

    The survey process took approximately thirty minutes. The four survey items specifically related to the FSA asked whether respondents perceived that the new law affected the following factors:

    the difficulty of obtaining a gun generally,

    the cost of a gun,

    the willingness of another individual to buy a gun on the respondent’s behalf (a straw purchaser), and

    the ease of finding a trusted source that would sell a gun to the respondent.

    A respondent who answered yes, to indicate that the law made it more difficult to obtain a gun, was presented with a narrative text box to provide detail on how the law made obtaining a gun more difficult. This study was approved by the Johns Hopkins Institutional Review Board.


    Excuse me, parolee, would you like to take 30 minute survey? Please be honest in all your answers.


    There is some good data attached. But I have a few questions.

    Over the study period, BPD submitted 21,546 guns for tracing. Of these, 6,520 were found guns or guns turned in by citizens and 5,476 were rifles or shotguns; these categories were excluded from the analysis. Data for 11,462 handguns that were connected to a criminal suspect, crime scene, or criminal investigation were submitted for tracing. More than half (55.6 percent) of the handguns were recovered in arrests for illegal handgun possession; 20.3 percent were recovered in drug-related arrests; and 17.8 percent were connected to some type of violent crime (see table 1).

    11,462 out of 21,546 were traced. How many were successfully traced? Back to any illegal sale? How many of these crimes were actually prosecuted?

    Additionally, the share of Baltimore crime handguns from states other than Maryland did increase steadily each year from 55 percent in 2012 (last full year before the FSA) to 64 percent through the first three quarters of 2015. The point estimate from our regression analysis indicated a 20 percent increase in out-of-state crime handguns recovered in Baltimore coincident with the FSA, but the change was not statistically significant. However, the nearly two-thirds of crime handguns in Baltimore traced to original out-of-state retail sales in 2015 further support the existence of notable constraints in the local supply lines to Baltimore’s underground gun market (ATF 2016a).


    This study is going to require further analysis, by John Lott, or a really good social scientist. Because you know it is already being cited by MPGV and it will be cited in next year's GA session.
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    34,023
    In a op-ed in the Annapolis Capital, Froshie cites a (gasp) published study proving FSA works.

    Crifasi, et al., “The Initial Impact of the Firearm Safety Act of 2013 on the Supply of Crime Handguns in Baltimore.” — Russell Sage Foundation, Journal of the Social Sciences.

    https://www.rsfjournal.org/doi/abs/10.7758/RSF.2017.3.5.06

    Oh look! They're from the Bloomberg School at Hopkins.

    Initial issues:

    They cite Webster's studies. The self-licking ice cream cone.
    They look at gun diversion rates since 2013, but appear to omit data showing decreases before that period. We were in a generally downward trend.

    When a gun trace was successful, the data included information on original sale date and purchaser, recovery date, possessor, and the type of incident in which the gun was recovered.


    No data on how many were/were not successful.

    To assess awareness and perceived impact of the FSA among persons legally prohibited from purchasing or possessing guns, we included four FSA-specific questions in a multipart survey designed to appraise gun availability in the underground gun market in Baltimore. Using a convenience sampling methodology, we administered the survey in May and June 2016 to 195 men on parole or probation in Baltimore. The selection was to identify persons with recent interaction with the criminal justice system that would prohibit them from purchasing or possessing a gun under Maryland state law.

    Survey respondents were recruited outside parole and probation offices in Baltimore. Men who asserted that they were over the age of eighteen, currently on parole or probation, and Baltimore residents were invited to complete the survey after eligibility was determined via screening questions.


    This is not a reliable group.

    The survey process took approximately thirty minutes. The four survey items specifically related to the FSA asked whether respondents perceived that the new law affected the following factors:

    the difficulty of obtaining a gun generally,

    the cost of a gun,

    the willingness of another individual to buy a gun on the respondent’s behalf (a straw purchaser), and

    the ease of finding a trusted source that would sell a gun to the respondent.

    A respondent who answered yes, to indicate that the law made it more difficult to obtain a gun, was presented with a narrative text box to provide detail on how the law made obtaining a gun more difficult. This study was approved by the Johns Hopkins Institutional Review Board.


    Excuse me, parolee, would you like to take 30 minute survey? Please be honest in all your answers.


    There is some good data attached. But I have a few questions.

    Over the study period, BPD submitted 21,546 guns for tracing. Of these, 6,520 were found guns or guns turned in by citizens and 5,476 were rifles or shotguns; these categories were excluded from the analysis. Data for 11,462 handguns that were connected to a criminal suspect, crime scene, or criminal investigation were submitted for tracing. More than half (55.6 percent) of the handguns were recovered in arrests for illegal handgun possession; 20.3 percent were recovered in drug-related arrests; and 17.8 percent were connected to some type of violent crime (see table 1).

    11,462 out of 21,546 were traced. How many were successfully traced? Back to any illegal sale? How many of these crimes were actually prosecuted?

    Additionally, the share of Baltimore crime handguns from states other than Maryland did increase steadily each year from 55 percent in 2012 (last full year before the FSA) to 64 percent through the first three quarters of 2015. The point estimate from our regression analysis indicated a 20 percent increase in out-of-state crime handguns recovered in Baltimore coincident with the FSA, but the change was not statistically significant. However, the nearly two-thirds of crime handguns in Baltimore traced to original out-of-state retail sales in 2015 further support the existence of notable constraints in the local supply lines to Baltimore’s underground gun market (ATF 2016a).


    This study is going to require further analysis, by John Lott, or a really good social scientist. Because you know it is already being cited by MPGV and it will be cited in next year's GA session.

    Politically timed and motivated, and sponsored by a proponent of the legislation?

    You know the first thing liberals say about environmental studies sponsored by Exxon, don't you? lol.

    Don't trust their samples, numbers, methodology, context, or conclusions.
     

    barr321

    Inaccurately accurate
    Sep 22, 2018
    63
    The HQL process is about as effective as all these “high capacity” magazine bans. (Read as 0).
     

    Racer Doug14

    Thread killer
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Feb 22, 2013
    8,007
    Millers Maryland
    How many were stolen? If that occurs out of MD and is not reported. How is it assumed as a straw purchase or illegal sale? Once again cherry picked statistics from unreliable sources.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    How many were stolen? If that occurs out of MD and is not reported. How is it assumed as a straw purchase or illegal sale? Once again cherry picked statistics from unreliable sources.

    ATF stats do show that crime guns are being sourced elsewhere from years ago. However, crime has increased here across the board in that same period. HQL has just forced criminals to either traffic arms from elsewhere, or... commit more theft and robberies from homes and businesses...

    HQL has not saved lives or lowered violence. Baltimore has seen record violent years despite the laws and this year doesn’t look good either.

    I’ve attached PDFs showing the change over time.
     

    Attachments

    • 2016_trace_stats_maryland_0.pdf
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    • mdwebsite17_183900.pdf
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    • final_source_recovery_by_state-cy_2011.xlsx
      29.4 KB · Views: 52

    ShafTed

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 21, 2013
    2,221
    Juuuuust over the line
    Somebody needs to dig up that graph that showed the huge spike in Baltimore Maryland murders just after 2013. I think it might have been from the CDC.

    Edit: Found it, this graph was presented by danb in this thread:

    https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=223877&page=2

    16 May this year. Dan, could you share where you found this? We need to get this into the Crapital Gazette to answer the steaming pile of Frosh.
     

    Attachments

    • death by firearms.gif
      death by firearms.gif
      6.3 KB · Views: 228
    Last edited:

    zach5963

    Member
    Apr 26, 2018
    5
    The last I check the HQL says to not a permit, but what do I know I’m just a law abiding citizen lol
     

    1841DNG

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 17, 2016
    1,143
    Well if some poor single parent is unable to fend off an attack in their home because the HQL is too burdensome, we can throw the assailant into the pile of lives saved. The system works.
     

    IX-3

    Active Member
    Aug 21, 2018
    424
    Eastern Shore, MD
    Well if some poor single parent is unable to fend off an attack in their home because the HQL is too burdensome, we can throw the assailant into the pile of lives saved. The system works.

    They could always buy a shotgun or AR for home defense. The HQL doesn't prevent people from defending themselves, it just prevents them from using a handgun to do so.

    While having to get an HQL to buy a handgun sucks it's not as big of a burden to get one as people like to make it. The 7 day wait is more of a burden to me personally.
     

    StantonCree

    Watch your beer
    Jan 23, 2011
    23,932
    They could always buy a shotgun or AR for home defense. The HQL doesn't prevent people from defending themselves, it just prevents them from using a handgun to do so.

    While having to get an HQL to buy a handgun sucks it's not as big of a burden to get one as people like to make it. The 7 day wait is more of a burden to me personally.

    How a single mother of small children chooses to defend her family should be up to her, not the state!

    The HQL is a recreation tax by the state plain and simple.
     

    CrabcakesAndFootball

    Active Member
    Jun 14, 2017
    697
    How a single mother of small children chooses to defend her family should be up to her, not the state!

    The HQL is a recreation tax by the state plain and simple.

    Respectfully, I do not think we should be referring to it this way. Heller says there's a constitutional right to possess a handgun in the home for self defense. The antis admit that. Any barrier the state throws up to the exercise of that right, like the HQL, is an unconstitutional infringement. Hopefully, our reformed SCOTUS remedies this blatant civil rights violation sooner rather than later.
     

    1841DNG

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 17, 2016
    1,143
    They could always buy a shotgun or AR for home defense. The HQL doesn't prevent people from defending themselves, it just prevents them from using a handgun to do so.

    While having to get an HQL to buy a handgun sucks it's not as big of a burden to get one as people like to make it. The 7 day wait is more of a burden to me personally.

    Well maybe this hypothetical person has an injured hand and can not weird a rifle, carbine, or most shotguns effectively and needs something one handed like a revolver. Maybe they want a quick access handgun safe bolted to something near the bed to keep kids from handling it. Everyone's situation is a bit different and the optimal choice for self defense will vary person to person.
     

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