HQL = unconstitutional tax

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Status
    Not open for further replies.

    UNcommon Arms

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 16, 2011
    332
    Howard County
    SB281 HQL = unconstitutional tax on civil right????


    Why wouldn’t the SB281 {HQL provision} lawsuit challenge the unconstitutionality of “licensing a civil/constitutional right.” SCOTUS 1943 Murdoch v Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105, has settled that issue - ruling that requiring the purchase of a license was an unconstitutional tax in the free exercise of a constitutional right.

    I’m a simple man so… please enlighten me.
     

    DavidMS

    Member
    Feb 23, 2013
    84
    Fairfax VA
    Its in effect no diffrent than a Poll Tax

    Its a method of assuring that poorer and less resourced people will be unable to legally exercise rights guaranteed in the Constitution. It will also disproportionately impact minorities.
     

    bbrown

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 10, 2009
    3,032
    MD
    There are more lawsuits to come, drafted by some pretty knowledgeable folks. This has been noticed and discussed before, so stay tuned.
     

    K-Romulus

    Suburban Commando
    Mar 15, 2007
    2,427
    NE MoCO
    Nope; as courts hearing the 2AF suit against NYC say, the fees are not a tax - - just merely a way for government to cover the admin costs associated with administering the exercise of a right.

    http://www.thegunmag.com/federal-appeals-court-upholds-high-nyc-pistol-licensing-fees/ (slow to load)

    http://blogs.findlaw.com/second_cir...n-fees-are-constiutional-2nd-cir-affirms.html

    I don't agree, but that is what the courts said. Maybe the USSC will clear up the NYC fee question, but USSC cases from the past have laid out those rules I just explained.

    If the fees are higher than the admin costs, then those excess fees are not cost recovery and possibly could be challenged as a tax.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
     

    sgt23preston

    USMC LLA. NRA Life Member
    May 19, 2011
    3,994
    Perry Hall
    How is it different from a Driver's License..?

    If you decide want to drive...

    You have to buy insurance...

    You have to pay $$ to take classes...

    And you have to pay the DMV for a Learners Card...

    And you have to pass tests to show that you can drive safely...

    Then you get to pay for your license...

    And your License will expire after a few years...

    Then you need to pay more money for a new license...
     

    seawolf823

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Dec 18, 2011
    931
    Timonium
    How is it different from a Driver's License..?

    If you decide want to drive...

    You have to buy insurance...

    You have to pay $$ to take classes...

    And you have to pay the DMV for a Learners Card...

    And you have to pass tests to show that you can drive safely...

    Then you get to pay for your license...

    And your License will expire after a few years...

    Then you need to pay more money for a new license...

    But driving is a privilege not a right if I am not mistaken.
     

    HotWheelsUMD

    Active Member
    Feb 22, 2013
    233
    Northern Balt Co, MD
    How is it different from a Driver's License..?

    If you decide want to drive...

    You have to buy insurance...

    You have to pay $$ to take classes...

    And you have to pay the DMV for a Learners Card...

    And you have to pass tests to show that you can drive safely...

    Then you get to pay for your license...

    And your License will expire after a few years...

    Then you need to pay more money for a new license...

    Driving is not an enumerated Constitutional right. It is a privilege.
     

    UNcommon Arms

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 16, 2011
    332
    Howard County
    Nope; as courts hearing the 2AF suit against NYC say, the fees are not a tax - - just merely a way for government to cover the admin costs associated with administering the exercise of a right.

    http://www.thegunmag.com/federal-appeals-court-upholds-high-nyc-pistol-licensing-fees/ (slow to load)

    http://blogs.findlaw.com/second_cir...n-fees-are-constiutional-2nd-cir-affirms.html

    I don't agree, but that is what the courts said. Maybe the USSC will clear up the NYC fee question, but USSC cases from the past have laid out those rules I just explained.

    If the fees are higher than the admin costs, then those excess fees are not cost recovery and possibly could be challenged as a tax.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
    NY court is wrong. If appealed to SCOTUS - Murdoch v Pennsylvania - Page [319 U.S. 105, 113] reads... The privilege in question exists apart from state authority. It is guaranteed the people by the federal constitution. viz., The state cannot and does not have the power to license, nor tax, a Right guaranteed to the people.
     

    Grampa G

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 11, 2010
    2,451
    Washington Co.
    How is it different from a Driver's License..?

    If you decide want to drive...

    You have to buy insurance...

    You have to pay $$ to take classes...

    And you have to pay the DMV for a Learners Card...

    And you have to pass tests to show that you can drive safely...

    Then you get to pay for your license...

    And your License will expire after a few years...

    Then you need to pay more money for a new license...

    Besides the previous points made I'll include the following:
    a) You don't need a DL to buy a car, and
    b) You don't need a DL or insurance to drive on your own property
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    Besides the previous points made I'll include the following:
    a) You don't need a DL to buy a car, and
    b) You don't need a DL or insurance to drive on your own property

    Yup, plus there's no limit on the vehicle you can obtain if it's for use on your own property. You can get a f1 racecar or a monster truck if you want. You only need a license if you're bringing the vehicle into the public domain and then your license is reciprocal with all the states in the republic. You don't even need to do paperwork on a vehicle you're keeping on your property.....and many more people are killed in car accidents each year than in shootings. Plus driving is a privilege.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,156
    How is it different from a Driver's License..?

    If you decide want to drive...

    You have to buy insurance...

    You have to pay $$ to take classes...

    And you have to pay the DMV for a Learners Card...

    And you have to pass tests to show that you can drive safely...

    Then you get to pay for your license...

    And your License will expire after a few years...

    Then you need to pay more money for a new license...

    If you need a license for the 2nd amendment then you will also need a license for other rights.
    License to practice religion, only for those churches with low capacity pews.
    License to make speeches, only in person and control the number of decibels allowed.
    License to print newspapers and books, only those printed on a hand press with moveable lead type.
    License to peaceably assemble, only in the vacant lot next to the police station
     

    sgt23preston

    USMC LLA. NRA Life Member
    May 19, 2011
    3,994
    Perry Hall
    Driving is not an enumerated Constitutional right. It is a privilege.

    OK The Constitution states the we all have the right to bear arms...

    That means a baby 1 day old or a severely retarded person can get a gun..?

    I'm not sure that's what the Framer had in mind...

    BUT under the Constitution, the States have the right to regulate what goes on within their State...

    Merry-land has always regulated guns going back to shortly after the Civil War...

    The earliest regulations were written by Democrats & designed to keep guns out of the hands of newly freed black slaves...

    I'm on your side, there is nothing new here, it's just history...
     

    K-Romulus

    Suburban Commando
    Mar 15, 2007
    2,427
    NE MoCO
    NY court is wrong. If appealed to SCOTUS - Murdoch v Pennsylvania - Page [319 U.S. 105, 113] reads... The privilege in question exists apart from state authority. It is guaranteed the people by the federal constitution. viz., The state cannot and does not have the power to license, nor tax, a Right guaranteed to the people.

    2AF tried that argument and lost. And 2AF argued the case in the federal courts, not the state courts. The USSC cases I vaguely mentioned all concerned 1st Amt challenges to things like demonstration permits. I will see if I can find a link to the Kwong federal appeals court decision so people can see what it said.

    ETA : here is a link
    http://dockets.justia.com/docket/circuit-courts/ca2/12-1578/

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
     
    Last edited:

    HarCo2ANewb

    Subibro
    Mar 24, 2011
    5,899
    Elkridge


    OK The Constitution states the we all have the right to bear arms...

    That means a baby 1 day old or a severely retarded person can get a gun..?

    I'm not sure that's what the Framer had in mind...

    BUT under the Constitution, the States have the right to regulate what goes on within their State...

    Merry-land has always regulated guns going back to shortly after the Civil War...

    The earliest regulations were written by Democrats & designed to keep guns out of the hands of newly freed black slaves...

    I'm on your side, there is nothing new here, it's just history...

    Anyone who is ok with the HQL, isn't on our side, plain and simple.



    Like stated above, the US SC has ruled that the states can charge an amount to cover only the costs associated with the processing of the license but anything above that, it is a tax. This is where the outrageous, $20 per card cost, just to print the card, is going to come into play. SB281 said up to $50, they put it at $50 and have stated, on the record, they never did any real study on the actual cost
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,924
    Messages
    7,259,227
    Members
    33,349
    Latest member
    christian04

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom