Attention-PA no longer recognizes any NR CCW permit

swinokur · Apr 20, 2018

Prince law blog entry

https://blog.princelaw.com/2018/04/...ws-reciprocity-agreements-and-nixes-virginia/

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bobwilley · Apr 20, 2018

In researching, and how it affects Maryland shooters.

It appears that if you live in MD, you can no longer get an Non-Resident permit in any county in PA.
1. PA requires that your resident permit state MUST offer reciprocity, and MD does not offer reciprocity with any state
2. PA only accepts UNRESTRICTED permits, and many in MD are restricted, mine is for "Business", check the back of your card.
In looking at other posts, it can be even more difficult to try to get that lifted to UnRestricted

I have not been able to find any workaround??

1 - possess a valid Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms,
2 - maintain residency in, and possess a valid license/permit to carry a firearm from a state with which Pennsylvania has a current reciprocity agreement or

http://www.psp.pa.gov/firearms-information/Pages/Carrying-Firearms-in-Pennsylvania.aspx

How can I find the most recent information regarding Firearm Reciprocity Agreements?

In 1995, the Pennsylvania General Assembly gave the Attorney General the authority to enter into reciprocity agreements with other states providing for the mutual recognition of each state’s license to carry a firearm. The most current information concerning what states have reciprocity agreements with Pennsylvania is posted on the Attorney General’s website. To access this information on their web site, select “Crime” and from the drop down box select “Firearm Reciprocity”. From here you can view all the states that currently have reciprocity agreements with Pennsylvania along with a copy of the actual reciprocity agreements. All licenses issued by reciprocity states are recognized in Pennsylvania.

Other information included under “Firearm Reciprocity” is a list of states that allow individuals to carry concealed weapons in their state as long as they have a valid concealed weapons permit from their home state, regardless of whether or not there is a reciprocity agreement with that state. These states usually require the individual to have the actual permit and photo ID on their person while carrying the weapon. Note that to lawfully carry a concealed firearm in Pennsylvania, a person must either:

1 - possess a valid Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms,
2 - maintain residency in, and possess a valid license/permit to carry a firearm from a state with which Pennsylvania has a current reciprocity agreement or
3 - fall within the applicable exceptions in 18 Pa. C.S. §6106(2)(b) as listed above, including §6106(2)(b)(15) regarding licenses/permits to carry a firearm recognized under Pennsylvania law without a formal reciprocity agreement.

For a list of the state licenses/permits recognized by the Attorney General under §6106(2)(b)(15), and for more information regarding the carrying of firearms in Pennsylvania, please visit www.attorneygeneral.gov.

P.S. I have contacted 6 county sheriffs in various areas of southeast PA to verify this information.
Most sheriffs will no longer issue Non-Resident permits under any circumstances now that the PA Attorney General has clamped down.

swinokur · Apr 20, 2018

Then OC is the alternative. Let them live with that.

John from MD · Apr 20, 2018

Thanks for the info. Please verify that car carry is still valid if you have ANY state's CCW or not.

Thanks,

swinokur · Apr 20, 2018

That is codified in statute and the AG can’t change that without legislative action.

IANAL

Biggfoot44 · Apr 20, 2018

Two different things, only tangentially related - Recognition of actual Maryland W&C Permit ,.and issue of PA Non-Resident LTCF .

The actual Md W&C Permit is not recognized ( ie allow concealed carry, on foot, with only a Md W&C Permit is no bueno ).

Penna requires the holding of a home state Permit , to be issued a Penna LTCF .

Restricted vs Unrestricted is not addressed in Pa state law . Reports are that certain Pa Sheriffs are making that up on their own . Non-Resident may make application to any Sheriff in the state. ( Or Phila Chief of Police , but not recomended unless you have personal connections.)

I don't personally have a Pa LTCF , but reports from MDS'ers continue to give thumbs up to IIRC Adams and Lancaster counties , in proximity to Md border.

Added after simultaneous postings -

Yup , back to OC . Again . I'm losing track of the OC/ CC flip flops . And I didn't lose anything in Philadelphia.

KH195 · Apr 20, 2018

bobwilley said:
In researching, and how it affects Maryland shooters.

It appears that if you live in MD, you can no longer get an Non-Resident permit in any county in PA.
1. PA requires that your resident permit state MUST offer reciprocity, and MD does not offer reciprocity with any state
2. PA only accepts UNRESTRICTED permits, and many in MD are restricted, mine is for "Business", check the back of your card.
In looking at other posts, it can be even more difficult to try to get that lifted to UnRestricted

I have not been able to find any workaround??

1 - possess a valid Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms,
2 - maintain residency in, and possess a valid license/permit to carry a firearm from a state with which Pennsylvania has a current reciprocity agreement or

http://www.psp.pa.gov/firearms-information/Pages/Carrying-Firearms-in-Pennsylvania.aspx

How can I find the most recent information regarding Firearm Reciprocity Agreements?

In 1995, the Pennsylvania General Assembly gave the Attorney General the authority to enter into reciprocity agreements with other states providing for the mutual recognition of each state’s license to carry a firearm. The most current information concerning what states have reciprocity agreements with Pennsylvania is posted on the Attorney General’s website. To access this information on their web site, select “Crime” and from the drop down box select “Firearm Reciprocity”. From here you can view all the states that currently have reciprocity agreements with Pennsylvania along with a copy of the actual reciprocity agreements. All licenses issued by reciprocity states are recognized in Pennsylvania.

Other information included under “Firearm Reciprocity” is a list of states that allow individuals to carry concealed weapons in their state as long as they have a valid concealed weapons permit from their home state, regardless of whether or not there is a reciprocity agreement with that state. These states usually require the individual to have the actual permit and photo ID on their person while carrying the weapon. Note that to lawfully carry a concealed firearm in Pennsylvania, a person must either:

1 - possess a valid Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms,
2 - maintain residency in, and possess a valid license/permit to carry a firearm from a state with which Pennsylvania has a current reciprocity agreement or
3 - fall within the applicable exceptions in 18 Pa. C.S. §6106(2)(b) as listed above, including §6106(2)(b)(15) regarding licenses/permits to carry a firearm recognized under Pennsylvania law without a formal reciprocity agreement.

For a list of the state licenses/permits recognized by the Attorney General under §6106(2)(b)(15), and for more information regarding the carrying of firearms in Pennsylvania, please visit www.attorneygeneral.gov.

P.S. I have contacted 6 county sheriffs in various areas of southeast PA to verify this information.
Most sheriffs will no longer issue Non-Resident permits under any circumstances now that the PA Attorney General has clamped down.

I just renewed my PA non-resident permit yesterday (4/19) in Cumberland County, PA. In and out with new permit in hand in under 10 minutes. Nothing mentioned about any changes to issuing non-res permits. I do, however, have an unrestricted MD permit so I don't know if that comes into play or not.

swinokur · Apr 21, 2018

I have not read that PA will only issue a NR permit to a resident of a state that recognizes the PA permit. The only requirement I am aware of is that you possess a permit from your state of residence.

Please provide an exact cite that contradicts this.

Here is the relevant section fro handgunlaw.us that says only a resident permit is required to get a PA NR permit. While it's not the AG site, it is very accurate.

There is no mention of state reciprocity being an additional requirement.
.

press1280 · Apr 21, 2018

bobwilley said:
In researching, and how it affects Maryland shooters.

It appears that if you live in MD, you can no longer get an Non-Resident permit in any county in PA.
1. PA requires that your resident permit state MUST offer reciprocity, and MD does not offer reciprocity with any state
2. PA only accepts UNRESTRICTED permits, and many in MD are restricted, mine is for "Business", check the back of your card.
In looking at other posts, it can be even more difficult to try to get that lifted to UnRestricted

I have not been able to find any workaround??

1 - possess a valid Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms,
2 - maintain residency in, and possess a valid license/permit to carry a firearm from a state with which Pennsylvania has a current reciprocity agreement or

http://www.psp.pa.gov/firearms-information/Pages/Carrying-Firearms-in-Pennsylvania.aspx

How can I find the most recent information regarding Firearm Reciprocity Agreements?

In 1995, the Pennsylvania General Assembly gave the Attorney General the authority to enter into reciprocity agreements with other states providing for the mutual recognition of each state’s license to carry a firearm. The most current information concerning what states have reciprocity agreements with Pennsylvania is posted on the Attorney General’s website. To access this information on their web site, select “Crime” and from the drop down box select “Firearm Reciprocity”. From here you can view all the states that currently have reciprocity agreements with Pennsylvania along with a copy of the actual reciprocity agreements. All licenses issued by reciprocity states are recognized in Pennsylvania.

Other information included under “Firearm Reciprocity” is a list of states that allow individuals to carry concealed weapons in their state as long as they have a valid concealed weapons permit from their home state, regardless of whether or not there is a reciprocity agreement with that state. These states usually require the individual to have the actual permit and photo ID on their person while carrying the weapon. Note that to lawfully carry a concealed firearm in Pennsylvania, a person must either:

1 - possess a valid Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms,
2 - maintain residency in, and possess a valid license/permit to carry a firearm from a state with which Pennsylvania has a current reciprocity agreement or
3 - fall within the applicable exceptions in 18 Pa. C.S. §6106(2)(b) as listed above, including §6106(2)(b)(15) regarding licenses/permits to carry a firearm recognized under Pennsylvania law without a formal reciprocity agreement.

For a list of the state licenses/permits recognized by the Attorney General under §6106(2)(b)(15), and for more information regarding the carrying of firearms in Pennsylvania, please visit www.attorneygeneral.gov.

P.S. I have contacted 6 county sheriffs in various areas of southeast PA to verify this information.
Most sheriffs will no longer issue Non-Resident permits under any circumstances now that the PA Attorney General has clamped down.

I know some sheriffs are making a deal of this but I'm not sure if all of them are. I don't think this is codified and may be an excuse for them to just not deal with it.
Have you tried Centre County (I know it's further)?

jaredm1 · Apr 21, 2018

swinokur said:
I have not read that PA will only issue a NR permit to a resident of a state that recognizes the PA permit. The only requirement I am aware of is that you possess a permit from your state of residence.

Please provide an exact cite that contradicts this.

Here is the relevant section fro handgunlaw.us that says only a resident permit is required to get a PA NR permit. While it's not the AG site, it is very accurate.

There is no mention of state reciprocity being an additional requirement.
.

If there is reciprocity, what would be the point of getting the PA license? The need for a PA non-res would be if you have a permit for your home state, but no reciprocity agreement with PA. So if you have a MD permit, you should be able to get a PA non-res license.

swinokur · Apr 21, 2018

Recognition and reciprocity are not the same. I talked to Gary Slider at handgun law and he points out nothing in the AG pamphlet limits issuance to reciprocal states. Only that you have a permit from your home state for PA to issue .

Gary does have a call into a PA sheriff to get clarification but it’s s weekend

But a state could recognize PA and not meet the standards for PA reciprocity like VA will be next month.

But IMO the requirement for recognition seems a bit nebulous. Guess we’ll find out

But I agree if there is reciprocity no need for the permit. But recognition is a different animal IMO

Gary Slider · Apr 21, 2018

I doubled Posted.

Gary Slider · Apr 21, 2018

The below is quoted out of context. This wording is for someone to legally be able to carry a firearm in Pennsylvania. You have to have a permit Issued or Honored by PA to carry there. This has been on the PA State Police site for years. I have talked to them about them stating Resident permits only from the states they honor. That wasn't the case before. That is why the previous AG started amending agreements as Resident Only as PA Statute doesn't allow for that but the AG can sign agreements. When I talked to the PA state Police in years past about there stating resident permits only their standard comeback was, "Read the Agreements!' If it states resident permit only then it is resident permits only. I told them that there were non-resident permits issued by states that the agreement didn't state Resident permits only and they were QUIET. No Answer. This is just someone reading the rules different than someone else.

I have not been able to find any workaround??

1 - possess a valid Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms,
2 - maintain residency in, and possess a valid license/permit to carry a firearm from a state with which Pennsylvania has a current reciprocity agreement or

Gary Slider · Apr 21, 2018

One Problem PA has is that there are Sheriffs that will not issue to non-residents. I had one tell me years ago after he wouldn't even give me an Application and wouldn't issue me one anyways, "Sue ME!" So call ahead or check out the sheriffs website to see if they issue. The Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Association has a list of their county Sheriffs and if they issue or not. Be a good place to start looking. http://www.pafoa.org/counties/

swinokur · Apr 21, 2018

So in essence nothing has changed. PA will issue a NR permit to a person who possess a permit from their home state.

End of story

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Gary Slider · Apr 21, 2018

I should have added this link http://www.psp.pa.gov/firearms-information/Pages/Carrying-Firearms-in-Pennsylvania.aspx

Scroll to the bottom of the page. You will see it states the below and this is what the person read and thought to apply you needed to be a resident of the state they have reciprocity with.

Note that to lawfully carry a concealed firearm in Pennsylvania, a person must either:

1 - possess a valid Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms,
2 - maintain residency in, and possess a valid license/permit to carry a firearm from a state with which Pennsylvania has a current reciprocity agreement or
3 - fall within the applicable exceptions in 18 Pa. C.S. §6106(2)(b) as listed above, including §6106(2)(b)(15) regarding licenses/permits to carry a firearm recognized under Pennsylvania law without a formal reciprocity agreement.

For a list of the state licenses/permits recognized by the Attorney General under §6106(2)(b)(15), and for more information regarding the carrying of firearms in Pennsylvania, please visit www.attorneygeneral.gov.

Gary Slider · Apr 21, 2018

One more follow up. It is statute so there could not have been an Administrative Rule Change without us seeing or hearing about such a change as it would have been talked about a lot in the different firearm news/blogs/forums etc etc.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...ype=HTM&ttl=18&div=0&chpt=61&sctn=9&subsctn=0

Title 18 § 6109. Licenses.

(e) Issuance of license.--

(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:

(ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).

rambling_one · Apr 21, 2018

swinokur said:
Recognition and reciprocity are not the same. I talked to Gary Slider at handgun law and he points out nothing in the AG pamphlet limits issuance to reciprocal states. Only that you have a permit from your home state for PA to issue .

Gary does have a call into a PA sheriff to get clarification but it’s s weekend

But a state could recognize PA and not meet the standards for PA reciprocity like VA will be next month.

But IMO the requirement for recognition seems a bit nebulous. Guess we’ll find out

But I agree if there is reciprocity no need for the permit. But recognition is a different animal IMO

Problem is uniformity. Word on the street is that various sheriffs are doing things in various ways.

swinokur · Apr 21, 2018

Gary pointed this out. He said some sheriffs will issue a non resident permit while others refuse.

Gary Slider · Apr 21, 2018

Sheriffs in PA are doing things in numerous ways. Some will not issue and know that by law a Non-Resident can apply but won't even let them. They do this as they don't pay any price for not going by the laws they swore to uphold. You can take a sheriff to court and make him issue you a permit or at least they have to put in writing why they refuse to issue you one as their law states. It won't cost them anything but you will have to pay to file your claim etc etc and show up for court dates etc. The state (Otherwise known as Taxpayers) will foot the sheriffs bill for the hearing and the most they will have to pay or do is issue you a permit. FL was having this problem with locals passing laws against their preemption law and they wound't take them off the books until someone or some group paid and took them to court to rule is was against Preemption. Then the FL Legislature passed a law that said if local officials do that you can sue the officials who do it and all those local laws disappeared off the books. You saw that happen in PA when the PA State Legislature passed such a law. Locals took those laws off the books then the law passed by the legislature was stricken by the State Supreme Ct because it wasn't passed using the proper procedure in the house and senate. Some locals even put those laws they took off back on the books.

Until the local officials can be held responsible for their actions "Some" will do what they wish and not what the law they swore to uphold states. Such is the state of government not only in Pennsylvania but across our lands.

Attention-PA no longer recognizes any NR CCW permit

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