Convert a Garand to accept box magazines?

buckshotu2 · Jan 3, 2014

Now I know this is not funny to some of the older more experienced folks. My father would tell me that converting an M1 Garand is nearly sacrilegious, but I'm wondering if it's legal to purchase a beat up complete Garand and send it to Shuff's to have him do a conversion..... Is this frowned upon by our new laws? It would need to be converted to a .308 barrel and milled out for a magazine. Here's his site address.... http://shuffsparkerizing.com/

What are my options here?

ken792 · Jan 3, 2014

Yes. The M14 and BM59 clones are banned, but an M1 Garand receiver taking M14 mags is neither. If you were to have an M1 receiver milled to take BM59 mags, then you have an issue. Go with his M14 mag option and you're good to go.

amoebicmagician · Jan 3, 2014

I want pictures of this rifle if it gets built, and if possible I'd like to volunteer some ammo to shoot out of it to, um... help... reliability?

stu929 · Jan 3, 2014

Tim does a great job and the Mini G conversions are pretty sweet looking but I couldn't chop an M1 personally.

trickg · Jan 4, 2014

Wasn't there recently an article in the American Rifleman magazine that showed a box magazine .308 converted Garand? If memory serves, it was a conversion done for the Navy.

Nanook · Jan 4, 2014

Nope, no Navy box conversions. 7.62 NATO Conversions with various grades, yes.

BlackBart · Jan 4, 2014

Listen to the old man an buy something else to go with it, just my .02. :shrug:

mopar92 · Jan 4, 2014

If you have a beat to sh*t M1 sitting in the corner do it.

buckshotu2 · Jan 4, 2014

mopar92 said:
If you have a beat to sh*t M1 sitting in the corner do it.

Yeah I already have a Garand and two M14 clones. I am thinking that I will do it if I can find a beat up Garand. I don't want to deface a fine service rifle..... I have more dignity than that.

So to clarify, If it is milled to accept the M14 mags, I'm good to go? Do I have to avoid a flash hider in leu of a muzzle brake?

ken792 · Jan 4, 2014

buckshotu2 said:
Yeah I already have a Garand and two M14 clones. I am thinking that I will do it if I can find a beat up Garand. I don't want to deface a fine service rifle..... I have more dignity than that.

So to clarify, If it is milled to accept the M14 mags, I'm good to go? Do I have to avoid a flash hider in leu of a muzzle brake?

You can have the flash hider as long as you don't have a grenade launcher or folding stock with it.

Drmsparks · Jan 4, 2014

Nope you are good to go.

Blacksmith101 · Jan 4, 2014

The CMP is selling M1 Garand's in .308 caliber that use the standard Enblock clip. The Garand is fine just like it is and 8 shots at a time won WW II. Just get an M1 in .308 or Shuff's will rebuild your beat up one in .308 without the expensive M-14 mags conversion. The Mags ain't cheap either.
http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/m1garand.htm

RM1308SPECIAL M1 Garand, CMP Special (.308) Allow 120-180 days for delivery.
M1 Garand Harrington & Richardson Arms receiver. This is a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Harrington & Richardson Arms receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and handguards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture. Minor pitting may be present. A .308 spacer block is installed to prevent the loading of a .30-06 round into the chamber. $995 + S&H $24.95 per rifle

Delivered to your door in a hard case, no FFL required. And CMP has the best customer service out there. The CMP Custom Shop is now accepting outside work they might do your rebuild in .308 at a competitive price. You would probably be money ahead by selling your beater and buying the RM1308SPECIAL.

asdaven · Jan 4, 2014

Be careful with that. Because If you buy a Garand with a C&R license then you CANT modify it as it takes it out of C&R status. But probably if you bought it normally not as C&R, your probably fine. And It would probably be fine with SB 281 too as long as you don't add a grenade launcher or flash hider and a folding stock.

lsw · Jan 4, 2014

What amazes me is that they guarantee to complete the conversion in 15 days! When I see some of the sob stories on this and other sites about shops taking forever for relatively simple jobs, 15 days for a conversion of this magnitude is really impressive.

trickg · Jan 4, 2014

Nanook said:
Nope, no Navy box conversions. 7.62 NATO Conversions with various grades, yes.

Maybe a bit of a misquote on my part - by .308, I was thinking 7.62x51, which is derived from the .308 Winchester. I haven't read the article, but the article title is

"Not A Matter of Great Urgency
7.62x51 mm NATO U.S. Navy Garand Rifles"

I was also wrong about the box conversion - don't know why I thought that because even flippping through, it shows rounds in en bloc clips - not box mags.

mgbill · Jan 4, 2014

asdaven said:
Be careful with that. Because If you buy a Garand with a C&R license then you CANT modify it as it takes it out of C&R status. But probably if you bought it normally not as C&R, your probably fine. And It would probably be fine with SB 281 too as long as you don't add a grenade launcher or flash hider and a folding stock.

Am curious. Could you give me a cite for the conclusion you reached in the second sentence, above? I've never seen anything that says I can't modify/change/sporterize a firearm that I purchased using a C&R license. I know that this action would take it out of the category of a C&R firearm, and that I couldn't sell it as one in the future. But a prohibition against modification?

dblas · Jan 4, 2014

mgbill said:
Am curious. Could you give me a cite for the conclusion you reached in the second sentence, above? I've never seen anything that says I can't modify/change/sporterize a firearm that I purchased using a C&R license. I know that this action would take it out of the category of a C&R firearm, and that I couldn't sell it as one in the future. But a prohibition against modification?

He is alluding to the 2 feature test for a copy cat firearm. Semi-auto with a detachable magazine that has any 2 of the following features (Folding stock, flash hider, or grenade/flare launcher) is a copy cat weapon and thus banned under SB281.

The jury is still out wether or not you can take an existing firearm and add those features and still be legal, but I wouldn't want to be a test case to find out.

So there is no prohibition on modification, just a very dark grey area on wether you can add two of the "features" and still have a legal firearm.

ken792 · Jan 4, 2014

asdaven said:
Be careful with that. Because If you buy a Garand with a C&R license then you CANT modify it as it takes it out of C&R status. But probably if you bought it normally not as C&R, your probably fine. And It would probably be fine with SB 281 too as long as you don't add a grenade launcher or flash hider and a folding stock.

You can un-C&R a C&R gun that you acquired with your FFL03 license (provided you don't make it into a configuration that is illegal). However, once it's no longer in a C&R configuration, you can't dispose of it as a C&R. For example, you can't dispose of it to a resident of a different state, while you would be able to with a C&R gun if the buyer meets you at your premises.

Basically if I used my C&R license to buy a Mosin M91/30 and then bubba'd it with a sporter stock and scope, it would be 100% legal. However, if a friend who is a resident of VA (while I'm an MD resident) wanted it, it would have to go through a transfer by an FFL01, even if my friend is an FFL03 himself.

asdaven · Jan 5, 2014

ken792 said:
You can un-C&R a C&R gun that you acquired with your FFL03 license (provided you don't make it into a configuration that is illegal). However, once it's no longer in a C&R configuration, you can't dispose of it as a C&R. For example, you can't dispose of it to a resident of a different state, while you would be able to with a C&R gun if the buyer meets you at your premises.

Basically if I used my C&R license to buy a Mosin M91/30 and then bubba'd it with a sporter stock and scope, it would be 100% legal. However, if a friend who is a resident of VA (while I'm an MD resident) wanted it, it would have to go through a transfer by an FFL01, even if my friend is an FFL03 himself.

Got it. Just seen sporterized and modified C&R guns dealers were selling in the past and weren't C&R eligible. So, i thought it was illegal to buy them as C&R and modify then. So I stand corrected, yes as long as you don't sell it as a C&R, you can do anything you want to it as long as it doesn't violate the "copycat" provision of SB281. And if you go to sell it, it wouldn't be C&R anymore. Guess I had my head caught up in HBAR/Non HBAR ARs and the provisions of SB281 haha.

bpm32 · Jan 5, 2014

The ATF Firearms Technology Branch interpreted ATF Ruling 85-10 to allow a C&R firearm with swapped-out sights, scope rings, or sling swivel to remain a C&R, but specifically disallows swapping a wooden stock with a synthetic one.

Not sure what happens when you make a modification that would remove a firearm from C&R status though. Do you then remove that firearm from your bound book?

Convert a Garand to accept box magazines?

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