Penalty For Unauthorized Carry?

redeemed.man · Sep 13, 2017

cantstop said:
This thread reminds me of Ohio's law that allows open carry, but restricts having a loaded firearm in a car without a CCW permit.

Works the same way in Pennsylvania
Although in Pennsylvania you can carry a loaded handgun in your car with a carry permit from any state.

Jumpmaster! · Sep 13, 2017

Citizens of states that follow the Constitution don't have this problem. Misguided politicians in Maryland use the law to impose their will on the people.

redeemed.man · Sep 13, 2017

1time said:
What is says is that LEOSA exempts eligible people from state and local laws, with 2 exceptions.

The state/local gov is still allowed to ban carry on thier property.

Private people are still allowed to ban carry on their private property.

The last I payed attention, it was illegal to conceal carry in a bar in Virginia. LEOSA exempts qualified people from that law. However, a owner of a bar is still allowed to ban carry, and LEOSA does not exempt that.

There is more to the law and some amendments also. You can't be prohibited under federal law. You can be under the influence of drugs/alcohol.

One amendment exempted qualified people from ammo restrictions. The mag capacity limits are not exempted.

One that you may be confusing is that carry used to be banned in federal parks. The amendment did not make it legal or illegal. It said that in federal parks, it will be up to the state to allow or not based on their state carry laws.

There is no federal law that says that LEOSA doesn't allow conceal carry but local permit holders may.

Speaking of public schools, they are gov property and the gov can ban carry on gov property. There are states that don't allow carry on school property. Some of them have an exemption for people that have a concealed carry permit. LEOSA is not a conceal carry permit and would not apply to the exemption.

There is a lot to LEOSA. It is not very restrictive but it is not unrestricted either. NRA-ILA has a lot of info on it.

Your understanding of the law is flawed. A private citizen in these circumstances cannot ban carry of a gun on their property. What they are in fact banning is trespassing by a person carrying a weapon. There is a huge difference.

Blaster229 · Sep 13, 2017

1time said:
What is says is that LEOSA exempts eligible people from state and local laws, with 2 exceptions.

The state/local gov is still allowed to ban carry on thier property.

Private people are still allowed to ban carry on their private property.

The last I payed attention, it was illegal to conceal carry in a bar in Virginia. LEOSA exempts qualified people from that law. However, a owner of a bar is still allowed to ban carry, and LEOSA does not exempt that.

There is more to the law and some amendments also. You can't be prohibited under federal law. You can be under the influence of drugs/alcohol.

One amendment exempted qualified people from ammo restrictions. The mag capacity limits are not exempted.

One that you may be confusing is that carry used to be banned in federal parks. The amendment did not make it legal or illegal. It said that in federal parks, it will be up to the state to allow or not based on their state carry laws.

There is no federal law that says that LEOSA doesn't allow conceal carry but local permit holders may.

Speaking of public schools, they are gov property and the gov can ban carry on gov property. There are states that don't allow carry on school property. Some of them have an exemption for people that have a concealed carry permit. LEOSA is not a conceal carry permit and would not apply to the exemption.

There is a lot to LEOSA. It is not very restrictive but it is not unrestricted either. NRA-ILA has a lot of info on it.

I think to just not over think it. Don't carry where the locals cannot and you're good to go.

1time · Sep 13, 2017

boundlessdyad said:
Your understanding of the law is flawed. A private citizen in these circumstances cannot ban carry of a gun on their property. What they are in fact banning is trespassing by a person carrying a weapon. There is a huge difference.

In Maryland, yes. Plenty of states the "no gun signs" have weight of law. If you are carrying in one of those businesses under LEOSA you are in violation and therefore not covered under LEOSA. As such, you may be charged with a concealed carry violation.

LEOSA is a different animal than concealed carry permits. In some area's it is less restrictive, other area's it is more restrictive. One example is the firearm you can carry. What are the restrictions of what type of handgun can be carried in Maryland with a permit? None, right? For LEOSA, you have to pick a revolver or semi auto to qualify with. You can only choose 1 and can only carry that. I can carry a Glock all day in DC, Jersey, NY. If I were to carry a revolver, LEOSA would not cover me and I could be charged with a handgun violation.

Blaster229 · Sep 13, 2017

1time said:
In Maryland, yes. Plenty of states the "no gun signs" have weight of law. If you are carrying in one of those businesses under LEOSA you are in violation and therefore not covered under LEOSA. As such, you may be charged with a concealed carry violation.

LEOSA is a different animal than concealed carry permits. In some area's it is less restrictive, other area's it is more restrictive. One example is the firearm you can carry. What is the restrictions of what type of handgun can be carried in Maryland with a permit? None, right? For LEOSA, you have to pick a revolver or semi auto to qualify with. You can only choose 1 and can only carry that. I can carry a Glock all day in DC, Jersey, NY. If I were to carry a revolver, LEOSA would not cover me and I could be charged with a handgun violation.

Who will charge you?

DanGuy48 · Sep 13, 2017

mvee said:
Driving through Maryland since you would possibly be transporting outside of the Maryland allowable reasons, I would transport according to FOPA. Unloaded and locked in a case in the trunk if one is available otherwise behind the seat in the truck.

""Safe Passage" provision

One of the law's provisions was that persons traveling from one place to another has a defense for any State firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gasoline), provided that the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, that the firearms are unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, the firearms are located in a locked container other than the glove compartment.[11]

This section has also been interpreted to protect air travel[12]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

1time · Sep 13, 2017

Blaster229 said:
Who will charge you?

In all likely hood, no one. I have carried a gun every day for the last 20 years and have never been questioned by LE or anyone else. If I was ever spotted they kept quiet about it. That doesn't mean that it couldn't happen. For me it is better to follow the law than to risk even a tiny chance of being burned.

Pinecone · Sep 13, 2017

mvee said:
Driving through Maryland since you would possibly be transporting outside of the Maryland allowable reasons, I would transport according to FOPA. Unloaded and locked in a case in the trunk if one is available otherwise behind the seat in the truck.

Locked in case is not required in the trunk under FOPA.

If there is no trunk (SUV, pickup), then EITHER the firearm or ammunition must be in locked container.

Redcobra · Sep 13, 2017

What about one of these behind the seat in a truck (but not bolted to the floor).
Gunvault GV1000S Mini Vault Standard Gun Safe

danb · Sep 13, 2017

boundlessdyad said:
Worst post of the thread.

Really? How many laws do you think you break a day? Not better than a Baltimore thug? I disagree. I am not advocating breaking unconstitutional laws but I won't sh1t talk those who make the choice.

A free man following the supreme law of the land that understands "shall not be infringed" should not be compared to a Baltimore thug.

If we are being intellectually honest, and I hope we are, people out of jail should be deemed no danger to society (otherwise, why release them) and have their gun (voting etc.) rights restored. Hence, they should be allowed to carry to protect themselves too. And if we are further being honest, I strongly disagree with drug laws, they have given the state excuses to violate 4th and 5th amendment rights too.

Unfortunately, the "supreme law" is what >=5 Justices say it is, and so far they have not said Maryland carry laws (or federal drug laws) are unconstitutional. Until then, no matter how strongly I disagree, I do not think we should be advocating breaking them in Maryland. Breaking laws for convenience or to make a buck is the essence of Baltimore. On the plus side, it would seem to me a retired police officer could make a strong case to get a permit. Problem solved.

eruby · Sep 13, 2017

danb said:
If we are being intellectually honest, and I hope we are, people out of jail should be deemed no danger to society (otherwise, why release them) and have their gun (voting etc.) rights restored. Hence, they should be allowed to carry to protect themselves too. And if we are further being honest, I strongly disagree with drug laws, they have given the state excuses to violate 4th and 5th amendment rights too.

Unfortunately, the "supreme law" is what >=5 Justices say it is, and so far they have not said Maryland carry laws (or federal drug laws) are unconstitutional. Until then, no matter how strongly I disagree, I do not think we should be advocating breaking them in Maryland. Breaking laws for convenience or to make a buck is the essence of Baltimore. On the plus side, it would seem to me a retired police officer could make a strong case to get a permit. Problem solved.

To quote Isaac Hayes, "you're damn right."

swinokur · Sep 13, 2017

He's a complicated man and no one understands him but his woman.

He's takkin' 'bout Shaft

molonlabe · Sep 13, 2017

Never carried in Wisconsin or Maryland. Knowing I would move to a free state I did not want to risk being a prohibited person and kissing my permit goodby. Carried in PA and Virginia with my Florida CCW.

lowoncash · Sep 13, 2017

cantstop said:
This thread reminds me of Ohio's law that allows open carry, but restricts having a loaded firearm in a car without a CCW permit.

Ohio also has a law prohibiting secret compartments in vehicles.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.241

Blaster229 · Sep 13, 2017

lowoncash said:
Ohio also has a law prohibiting secret compartments in vehicles.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.241

For controlled substances. Drugs.

Biggfoot44 · Sep 13, 2017

Wow ! I read the linked Federal statute on LEOSA, and it doesn't say what had been summarized/ tought for decades . If I was more motivated, I would research if this language was changed when LEOSA was tweaked a few years ago .

As current law is written :

Prohibited where No Gun Signs have force of law .
May be prohibited on state or local Gov't owned property.

Period.

NOT included : Catagoric prohibitions for catagories of places and events not involving gov't owned real estate . Means no bans on bars, churches, sporting events, political events, union meetings, hospitals, and etc, etc .

mdlowrider · Sep 13, 2017

Once a year, I get on my Harley and do a no-schedule, no-destination road trip. I go by myself and the first time I did this, ended up in Bangor, ME. The second year, Louisiana, having ridden all the way down the Mississippi river from Burlington, Iowa. These trips have generally ended up between 2,500 to 3,500 miles but again, there is no schedule and no destination. Basically, I just get up in the morning, watch the news to see where the weather will be best and go there, generally avoiding interstates. I usually stay in little motels, but sometimes sleep in a tarp on the road if I get sleepy and find myself too far from a place to stop. I've thought long and hard about the costs and benefits of concealed carry, versus the risks of being somewhere on the road without self defense and wishing I had some. I think the concealed carry laws in states like Maryland are an abomination, mindless laws designed for people who will ignore them anyway, but which do affect law-abiding people like me a in a real way. So every year when I get ready for the road trip, I have to make a decision - observe the most restrictive law in any state through which I might pass, or not. I can't tell you how much I resent having to think about this. We really do need national CCW and I wonder how many people are made criminals by the insane patchwork of nonsensical law that states like Maryland impose on self-defense. Sorry to rant - it's on my mind because I'll be leaving soon.

Sealion · Sep 13, 2017

mdlowrider said:
Once a year, I get on my Harley and do a no-schedule, no-destination road trip. I go by myself and the first time I did this, ended up in Bangor, ME. The second year, Louisiana, having ridden all the way down the Mississippi river from Burlington, Iowa. These trips have generally ended up between 2,500 to 3,500 miles but again, there is no schedule and no destination. Basically, I just get up in the morning, watch the news to see where the weather will be best and go there, generally avoiding interstates. I usually stay in little motels, but sometimes sleep in a tarp on the road if I get sleepy and find myself too far from a place to stop. I've thought long and hard about the costs and benefits of concealed carry, versus the risks of being somewhere on the road without self defense and wishing I had some. I think the concealed carry laws in states like Maryland are an abomination, mindless laws designed for people who will ignore them anyway, but which do affect law-abiding people like me a in a real way. So every year when I get ready for the road trip, I have to make a decision - observe the most restrictive law in any state through which I might pass, or not. I can't tell you how much I resent having to think about this. We really do need national CCW and I wonder how many people are made criminals by the insane patchwork of nonsensical law that states like Maryland impose on self-defense. Sorry to rant - it's on my mind because I'll be leaving soon.

Thanks for sharing. I'd love to be able to do this some day. Come back and tell us how it went or better yet give us updates from the road. And yes the patchwork of laws is crazy.

rbird7282 · Sep 13, 2017

1time said:
What is says is that LEOSA exempts eligible people from state and local laws, with 2 exceptions.

The state/local gov is still allowed to ban carry on thier property.

Private people are still allowed to ban carry on their private property.

The last I payed attention, it was illegal to conceal carry in a bar in Virginia. LEOSA exempts qualified people from that law. However, a owner of a bar is still allowed to ban carry, and LEOSA does not exempt that.

There is more to the law and some amendments also. You can't be prohibited under federal law. You can be under the influence of drugs/alcohol.

One amendment exempted qualified people from ammo restrictions. The mag capacity limits are not exempted.

One that you may be confusing is that carry used to be banned in federal parks. The amendment did not make it legal or illegal. It said that in federal parks, it will be up to the state to allow or not based on their state carry laws.

There is no federal law that says that LEOSA doesn't allow conceal carry but local permit holders may.

Speaking of public schools, they are gov property and the gov can ban carry on gov property. There are states that don't allow carry on school property. Some of them have an exemption for people that have a concealed carry permit. LEOSA is not a conceal carry permit and would not apply to the exemption.

There is a lot to LEOSA. It is not very restrictive but it is not unrestricted either. NRA-ILA has a lot of info on it.

It is legal to carry in a bar in Virginia (with a permit) but you can't drink alcohol.

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Penalty For Unauthorized Carry?

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