HBAR.....Why?

Threeband said:

The ban is based on Dianne Feinstein's old Assault Weapons List from about 1988-1989.

That list was the basis for Clinton's AWB of 1994-2004. It was used by Maryland when so-called "Assault Weapons" were Regulated (Form 77r and 7 day wait), and used for the ban of 2013.

The List is used by other states, but I don't know if other states versions include the HBAR exemption.

The List was created by a pair of Dianne Feinstein's staffers, who said they went down to the newstand at lunch time and bought a copy of Gun Digest. They went through the catalog section in the back and listed every long gun that looked scary, or unsuited for wabbit hunting. Seriously.

Because the List was created in 1988, it is full of odd guns few have ever heard of, such as the Linda and the Bushmaster. (The latter was NOT an AR, but rather an odd combination of AK and AR features, never produced in large numbers. Years later, after the Bushmaster rifle failed, the company turned to making ARs.) Except for a few revisions (I think) in 1994, the List has never been updated, which is why it does not include rifles like the SCAR and Tavor.

Anyway, in 1988 ARs were not being made by dozens of companies. If you wanted an AR, you pretty much chose among the Colts: the rifle or the carbine. They also had a target version- the Colt HBAR Sporter. This was coming into favor with serious High Power competitors for bullseye competition.

When legislation is proposed, there is always dealing and hoss trading and compromising. The argument was made that AR15s were increasingly used by serious target shooters. Okay, how can we distinguish the Evil Assault Rifle that kills people from the harmless AR15 that only punches neat holes in paper far away? Why the paper puncher has a Heavy Barrel.

Further, with the AR15 being added to Maryland's Regulated list, it was pointed out that Junior Competitors between the ages of 18 and 20 would be unable to possess the increasingly favored target rifle of choice. Thus the HBAR exemption.


By the way, I'm always a little annoyed when I read well-meaning rants about how stupid the HBAR exemption is. What do the ranters expect, that the Slavering Gun Grabbers will suddenly see the light, and revoke all restrictions on gun ownership? Just repeal all the anti gun laws? I do not think they will.

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buellsfurn said:

OK why is 11 rounds more dangerous then 10

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pbharvey said:

An HBAR is a target rifle.
Target shooting is a sport.


Target rifles and assault rifles are two different things, one is good and one is bad.
Bad guns have a mind of their own and must be banned by important people in Annapolis who wear suits and eat lunch with other important people who wear suits.
Those people are smarter than you because all your neighbors voted them into office with great confidence in their decision making powers.

Ask me why an 11 round magazine is more dangerous than a 10 round magazine.

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BigNutz said:

So I'll admit, knowing that there is likely a 99.442% probability this issue has been discussed somewhere on this forum, I did not preform a solid level of research or due diligence before giving up. But I did search a little, for like 5 minutes, and therefore ask that you humor me as newb who just didn't know any better. Thanks!

The question: I can't imagine that Maryland's AR HBAR requirements are justified by anything even close to being valid or logical. So I'm not sure why I'm asking, but I just gotta know. Is it because they feel the rifles will be safer if heavier (using gun control logic here!), longer, or thicker? Did I miss the point? Have they ever provided a justification, just for funsies?

Thanks!

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Threeband said:

Okay, how can we distinguish the Evil Assault Rifle that kills people from the harmless AR15 that only punches neat holes in paper far away? Why the paper puncher has a Heavy Barrel.

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5.56blaster said:

You did not miss the point. Maryland is stupid. Very stupid.

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TheOriginalMexicanBob said:

Never underestimate the stupidity of politicians in large numbers...or in any numbers for that matter.

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lkenefic said:

Exactly.... apparently, out law makers never strolled down a firing line at Camp Perry in the mid 1980's when it was dominated by M1A's...

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Buckeye_Nut said:

I believe that there was a Maryland Legislator who really liked target shooting with his Colt HBAR. So they cut a deal. I have to admit that when I went to a small gun show in Charles County about a year after the "ban", I was really surprised to see racks and racks full of AR-15's. Took me a while to realize they were all HBAR versions. They looked a lot safer.

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pbharvey said:

Those people are smarter than you because all your neighbors voted them into office with great confidence in their decision making powers.

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Pinecone said:

Even if they did, they would not be able to see the difference between an M1 Garand and an M1A.

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Buckeye_Nut said:

I believe that there was a Maryland Legislator who really liked target shooting with his Colt HBAR. So they cut a deal. I have to admit that when I went to a small gun show in Charles County about a year after the "ban", I was really surprised to see racks and racks full of AR-15's. Took me a while to realize they were all HBAR versions. They looked a lot safer.

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Threeband said:

The ban is based on Dianne Feinstein's old Assault Weapons List from about 1988-1989.

That list was the basis for Clinton's AWB of 1994-2004. It was used by Maryland when so-called "Assault Weapons" were Regulated (Form 77r and 7 day wait), and used for the ban of 2013.

The List is used by other states, but I don't know if other states versions include the HBAR exemption.

The List was created by a pair of Dianne Feinstein's staffers, who said they went down to the newstand at lunch time and bought a copy of Gun Digest. They went through the catalog section in the back and listed every long gun that looked scary, or unsuited for wabbit hunting. Seriously.

Because the List was created in 1988, it is full of odd guns few have ever heard of, such as the Linda and the Bushmaster. (The latter was NOT an AR, but rather an odd combination of AK and AR features, never produced in large numbers. Years later, after the Bushmaster rifle failed, the company turned to making ARs.) Except for a few revisions (I think) in 1994, the List has never been updated, which is why it does not include rifles like the SCAR and Tavor.

Anyway, in 1988 ARs were not being made by dozens of companies. If you wanted an AR, you pretty much chose among the Colts: the rifle or the carbine. They also had a target version- the Colt HBAR Sporter. This was coming into favor with serious High Power competitors for bullseye competition.

When legislation is proposed, there is always dealing and hoss trading and compromising. The argument was made that AR15s were increasingly used by serious target shooters. Okay, how can we distinguish the Evil Assault Rifle that kills people from the harmless AR15 that only punches neat holes in paper far away? Why the paper puncher has a Heavy Barrel.

Further, with the AR15 being added to Maryland's Regulated list, it was pointed out that Junior Competitors between the ages of 18 and 20 would be unable to possess the increasingly favored target rifle of choice. Thus the HBAR exemption.


By the way, I'm always a little annoyed when I read well-meaning rants about how stupid the HBAR exemption is. What do the ranters expect, that the Slavering Gun Grabbers will suddenly see the light, and revoke all restrictions on gun ownership? Just repeal all the anti gun laws? I do not think they will.

Click to expand...

BigNutz said:

So I'll admit, knowing that there is likely a 99.442% probability this issue has been discussed somewhere on this forum, I did not preform a solid level of research or due diligence before giving up. But I did search a little, for like 5 minutes, and therefore ask that you humor me as newb who just didn't know any better. Thanks!

The question: I can't imagine that Maryland's AR HBAR requirements are justified by anything even close to being valid or logical. So I'm not sure why I'm asking, but I just gotta know. Is it because they feel the rifles will be safer if heavier (using gun control logic here!), longer, or thicker? Did I miss the point? Have they ever provided a justification, just for funsies?

Thanks!

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eruby said:

First your Introduction post that sounds a bit to 'water-cooler seasoned' for a new person, and now a thread on HBARs.

Hmmmmm.

I give my word I will no longer reference any of this, but my tin foil is tingling.

I hope you do indeed just have 'big nuts', and will be a productive member here, in MSI perhaps, and in Annapolis; and are not a troll trolling.

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sgt23preston said:

Officially anything less than 2.25 inches in diameter and less than 30 inches long is NOT an HBAR unless it is stamped HBAR...
Get it, Got it, Good...(GRIN)...

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