M1 Enbloc Clips

SKIP · Sep 9, 2019

I just finished loading up 100 rnds on clips and wondered how they were loaded at the ammunition plant.
Anyone have a film clip?
They couldn't have factory workers manually doing the loading.

MacGuns · Sep 9, 2019

ken792 · Sep 9, 2019

This says about 500 of these loading machines were made in 1938 and 1939 fiscal years. I don't know how it was done during WWII though.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...nted-john-garand-patent-clip-loading-device-f

ken792 · Sep 9, 2019

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Sep 9, 2019

I would expect many, many were made during the war years and were used for years. Ammunition makers may have had some possibly and some may have been sent to overseas theaters for use. That doesn't include those for stripper clips for 1903 rifles as well.

marko · Sep 9, 2019

So did our GIs get loaded clips issued or just boxes of rounds they loaded themselves?
And did they ever stop to pick up the used clips? Or just let them fall where they may?
I know a ton about the war, but nothing about this.

dist1646 · Sep 9, 2019

marko said:
So did our GIs get loaded clips issued or just boxes of rounds they loaded themselves?
And did they ever stop to pick up the used clips? Or just let them fall where they may?
I know a ton about the war, but nothing about this.

All the Garand ammo I have seen came in bandoleers already in the enbloc.

Combloc · Sep 9, 2019

marko said:
So did our GIs get loaded clips issued or just boxes of rounds they loaded themselves?
And did they ever stop to pick up the used clips? Or just let them fall where they may?
.

My guess is "yes" to all of the above.

SKIP · Sep 9, 2019

dist1646 said:
All the Garand ammo I have seen came in bandoleers already in the enbloc.

The clip was expendable.
GIs could use the belted ammo to recharge empty clips but that could be only in an emergency.

Rambler · Sep 9, 2019

ken792 said:
This says about 500 of these loading machines were made in 1938 and 1939 fiscal years. I don't know how it was done during WWII though.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...nted-john-garand-patent-clip-loading-device-f

The article also stated that further purchase of the clip loaders was ceased after loaded clips became readily available from ammunition manufacturers. Garand was a government employee and rights to his patent would be held by the government meaning manufacturers making ammo for the government could use it fee free. I suspect that an automated version was used for large scale production. This would be similar to the difference between home (re)loading of cartridges versus factory.

What other small arms ammunition of WWII came pre-loaded in magazines?

SKIP · Sep 9, 2019

Rambler said:
What other small arms ammunition of WWII came pre-loaded in magazines?

None. Not even the Garand enbloc "clip".

The 1903 used 5 rnd chargers.

I don't believe other countries had pre-loaded mags.
Most had 5 rnd chargers such as the K98.

Threeband · Sep 9, 2019

Garand ammo usually comes in spam cans which hold 4 bandoleers of 6 clips each, for a total of 192 rounds per spam can. Alternatively, it comes in reusable ammo cans with hinged lids, same 4 bandoleers per can.

The bandoleers are made of cotton cloth, a long closed cloth tape or ribbon with six pockets holding one clip each. A cardboard insert on each pocket protects the cloth from the bullet tips. The same bandoleers would be issued with two 5 round stripper clips per pocket for the 1903 rifles.

Soldiers would drape the bandoleers over their shoulders, as many as they could.

The bandoleers like the clips and the brass cases were all one use, though they can be reused. I've probably got at least a hundred bandoleers with cardboards, as well as boxes of clips in my basement.

People used to sell them on the CMP forum, something like 4 bandoleers with 24 clips and cardboards, for $35 or $40, but that was a, while ago.

ken792 · Sep 9, 2019

Rambler said:
The article also stated that further purchase of the clip loaders was ceased after loaded clips became readily available from ammunition manufacturers. Garand was a government employee and rights to his patent would be held by the government meaning manufacturers making ammo for the government could use it fee free. I suspect that an automated version was used for large scale production. This would be similar to the difference between home (re)loading of cartridges versus factory.

What other small arms ammunition of WWII came pre-loaded in magazines?

Yeah, I knew ammo was delivered from the factory packed in whatever form desired, but I'm not sure what method they used to fill the clips. I haven't seen video or photos of the factories doing the loading.

The Army had an Ammunition Identification Code for each type of packaging for ammo (see link below), so you can see what carton or clip and what can or crate was used.

Threeband said:
Garand ammo usually comes in spam cans which hold 4 bandoleers of 6 clips each, for a total of 192 rounds per spam can. Alternatively, it comes in reusable ammo cans with hinged lids, same 4 bandoleers per can.

The M20 spam cans of four bandoleers each didn't come around until 1948 and were meant to be a universal can that could be used for all calibers of small arms ammo. I don't believe packing four to a .30 cal MG can (like the M1 or later the M19, or M19A1) came about until postwar either. The M5 can was the first spam can to be introduced in 1943 specifically for .45 ACP. The other spam cans followed.

During WWII, bandoleers of .30/06 in en blocs would be packed 1344rd (28 bandoleers) to an M1917 wooden chest or 240rd (five bandoleers) to an M8 spam can, two of which would be packed in an M9 wooden crate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._Army_munitions_by_supply_catalog_designation

Threeband · Sep 9, 2019

That makes sense because I always found it a frustratingly slow process to open those spam cans for a measly 4 bandoleers.

ken792 · Sep 9, 2019

Threeband said:
That makes sense because I always found it a frustratingly slow process to open those spam cans for a measly 4 bandoleers.

Four or five is a reasonable weight in a can to expect a infantryman to grab and move. The weight is similar to a 250rd belt in a can for a Browning MG, so they'd probably be used to it. The M1917 chest of 28 bandoleers isn't exactly a user friendly way to transport ammo on foot.

Pinecone · Sep 10, 2019

Threeband said:
Garand ammo usually comes in spam cans which hold 4 bandoleers of 6 clips each, for a total of 192 rounds per spam can. Alternatively, it comes in reusable ammo cans with hinged lids, same 4 bandoleers per can.

The bandoleers are made of cotton cloth, a long closed cloth tape or ribbon with six pockets holding one clip each. A cardboard insert on each pocket protects the cloth from the bullet tips. The same bandoleers would be issued with two 5 round stripper clips per pocket for the 1903 rifles.

Soldiers would drape the bandoleers over their shoulders, as many as they could.

The bandoleers like the clips and the brass cases were all one use, though they can be reused. I've probably got at least a hundred bandoleers with cardboards, as well as boxes of clips in my basement.

People used to sell them on the CMP forum, something like 4 bandoleers with 24 clips and cardboards, for $35 or $40, but that was a, while ago.

They still sell them.

If you ever want to get rid of some bandoleers and cardboards, let my know. I would like to have a few.

BuildnBurn · Sep 10, 2019

I would love to get the drawings for the Garand designed loader and make one.

Blacksmith101 · Sep 14, 2019

BuildnBurn said:
I would love to get the drawings for the Garand designed loader and make one.

Not Garand's but here are drawings for a clip loader:
http://www.foundry.ray-vin.com/ocl/ocl.htm

And here is a CMP Forum thread on the subject:
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=235813

YouTube of a home made loader:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvXmetBDFkU

BuildnBurn · Sep 15, 2019

Thank you

byf43 · Sep 16, 2019

Threeband said:
Garand ammo usually comes in spam cans which hold 4 bandoleers of 6 clips each, for a total of 192 rounds per spam can. Alternatively, it comes in reusable ammo cans with hinged lids, same 4 bandoleers per can.

The bandoleers are made of cotton cloth, a long closed cloth tape or ribbon with six pockets holding one clip each. A cardboard insert on each pocket protects the cloth from the bullet tips. The same bandoleers would be issued with two 5 round stripper clips per pocket for the 1903 rifles.

Soldiers would drape the bandoleers over their shoulders, as many as they could.

The bandoleers like the clips and the brass cases were all one use, though they can be reused. I've probably got at least a hundred bandoleers with cardboards, as well as boxes of clips in my basement.

People used to sell them on the CMP forum, something like 4 bandoleers with 24 clips and cardboards, for $35 or $40, but that was a, while ago.

Our club used to get M2 Ball from the DCM in .50 cal cans, with the rounds in the en bloc clips, 6 clips per bandoleer and 384 rounds per can - 768 rounds per case.

We also got .30 cal cans of M2 Ball in clips, in bandoleers, 280 rounds per can, with 1120 rounds (4 cans) per sealed case.

This was all LC-68; LC-69 and LC-72.

M1 Enbloc Clips

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Banned

Ultimate Member

Stop Negassing me!!!!!

Ultimate Member

Doing the best with the worst.

Ultimate Member

The M1 Does My Talking

Ultimate Member

The M1 Does My Talking

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Professional Pyro

Grumpy Old Man

Professional Pyro

SCSC Life/NRA Patron Life

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics