Young Opening Brief Filed

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  • Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,234
    Montgomery County
    So, the AG says that an ordinary citizen does not have the right to self defense. He’s saying that carrying should be limited to people with a more urgent concern than a normal interest in being prepared to defend one’s life. Did Mr. Frosh write this for him?
     

    motorcoachdoug

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    By reading that opinion that the AG put out, it sounds like he is ok with open carry as long as you can show G&S reason. It also sounds like Hawaii is trying to delay as long as possible for the citizens of Hawaii to carry without having to show G&S to get a permit. I bet our rabid anti 2A Frosh contacted the AG of Hawaii and mabe suggested he write that kind of letter. Frosh really needs to go take a hike down to the sewer to join the other rats just like him..
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    So, the AG says that an ordinary citizen does not have the right to self defense. He’s saying that carrying should be limited to people with a more urgent concern than a normal interest in being prepared to defend one’s life. Did Mr. Frosh write this for him?

    The Hawaii AG sounds like he’s open to May Issue Open Carry....too little IMHO...

    http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018//09/AG-Opinion-No.-18-1.pdf

    The AG does not say anything about self defense. He is stating that HI is a may issue state and that has not changed. The problem with may issue is that it has become no issue. The courts had a problem because it was essentially a no issue. It is a no issue because of the police chiefs not because of any law. The AG's letter deals with the law and not how the police chiefs implement it.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,234
    Montgomery County
    The AG does not say anything about self defense.

    Sorry, I should have said that we can infer from what he's written that a personal interest in self defense isn't a sufficient reason to be uninfringed upon. He is of course staying away from any plain language that actually means what he's more indirectly constructed.
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    Sorry, I should have said that we can infer from what he's written that a personal interest in self defense isn't a sufficient reason to be uninfringed upon. He is of course staying away from any plain language that actually means what he's more indirectly constructed.

    While I agree personally, the courts have not found that may issue violates 2A.
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    Exactly. What they're trying to do is go from no issue in statute to no issue in practice.
    But does this mean they'll go back to the district court and say yes, Young is eligible for a permit but hasn't proved a need for it?

    I believe HI and the dissent argued that it was not no issue so everything was fine. The reason the appeals court found a violation was that it was no issue in practice.
     

    MrNiceGuy

    Active Member
    Dec 9, 2013
    270
    By reading that opinion that the AG put out, it sounds like he is ok with open carry as long as you can show G&S reason. It also sounds like Hawaii is trying to delay as long as possible for the citizens of Hawaii to carry without having to show G&S to get a permit. I bet our rabid anti 2A Frosh contacted the AG of Hawaii and mabe suggested he write that kind of letter. Frosh really needs to go take a hike down to the sewer to join the other rats just like him..

    Reading that opinion, I get the sense the Hawaii AG is okay with carrying a gun if 1) you're in the process of being murdered and can provide documentation from several physicians attesting to the fact that injuries you're currently sustaining are likely to cause death OR 2) you're a friend or relative of his OR you're rich. Everyone else should just wait quietly for the guy with the chalk to show up and outline their lifeless corpse.

    In a just world, this guy would be booted out of office and facing criminal charges for conspiring to commit human rights violations.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,878
    WV
    I believe HI and the dissent argued that it was not no issue so everything was fine. The reason the appeals court found a violation was that it was no issue in practice.

    The dissent simply boggles the mind in thinking that as long as the state says it "might" find someone who can satisfy their definition of need, then it satisfies the 2A.
    I don't think this flies for any other constitutional right.
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    The dissent simply boggles the mind in thinking that as long as the state says it "might" find someone who can satisfy their definition of need, then it satisfies the 2A.
    I don't think this flies for any other constitutional right.

    Most other constitutional rights don't address public safety the way 2A does. The other rights certainly bend when there is a legitimate impact to public safety.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,687
    40+ states have adequately demonstrated that public safety is not compromised by broad issuance of CCW permits, or Constitutional carry.

    When "may issue" results in "no issue" even the 9th circuit choked on the Frosh Cupcake.
     

    delaware_export

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 10, 2018
    3,142
    i am hoping wolfwood stops by and makes a comment, being the person involved.

    that said, it would be interesting if young put as the reason "to protect myself" as his only G&S reason.

    if he doesn't get the permit, it shows their real intention, and some big lawyerly thing can be done.

    if he does get the permit, it sets "to protect myself" as an acceptable reason.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    Petition for rehearing en banc filed. See attached.
     

    Attachments

    • Young. Petition for rehearing.pdf
      1.2 MB · Views: 186

    wolfwood

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 24, 2011
    1,361
    i am hoping wolfwood stops by and makes a comment, being the person involved.

    that said, it would be interesting if young put as the reason "to protect myself" as his only G&S reason.

    if he doesn't get the permit, it shows their real intention, and some big lawyerly thing can be done.

    if he does get the permit, it sets "to protect myself" as an acceptable reason.

    sorry I won't really be posting much until the response to the en banc petition is filed. Trust me you want it that way.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,878
    WV
    Petition for rehearing en banc filed. See attached.

    HI is putting their chips on the "misreading" of the OC permit statute. Essentially they want their CCW and OC permit statutes read as the same thing, which doesn't seem to matter much since they don't issue either to ordinary citizens.
    But hey some lucky citizen may come along some day who WOWS us and we'll give him a permit! The 2A is satisfied!:rolleyes:
     

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