Bulged at Neck 223 Case

kalister1 · Apr 1, 2020

Has anybody seen this before?

I THINK that the case was too long before Lee Factory Crimp Die got it.

I use a (Worlds Finest Trimmer ?) which mounts in a drill press and uses the shoulder to reference from to get trim length. It appears to me my size die is the issue? I do not gage sized Brass, so I cannot say for sure, but I will start.
Found this and others (LOTS) at the York 2 gun and thought I had culled them all. Then at the AGC 3 Gun I jammed a couple more into the gun.

Yes I know, I did not gage all my ammo after reloading either. Have been using the same rig (Dillon 650) for thousands of rounds before this with no issue.

dist1646 · Apr 1, 2020

Looks to me like you are pushing the shoulder back with your set up. Try adjusting it until the mushroom is gone from future cases. Check your setup for trimming on the drill press. If that is not the issue,
try crimping in a separate operation, dies that seat and crimp at the same time can cause this also.

Uncle Duke · Apr 1, 2020

Lack of case mouth chamfer during bullet seating can cause your pictured outcome also.

hermyjoe · Apr 1, 2020

looks like "rolled" crimp to heavy. I use a separate crimp die. I have found some really soft brass cases that this happened with.

kalister1 · Apr 1, 2020

Thanks all.
I seat and crimp in two separate dies. Lee factory crimp die only crimps.
I have only seen this on one batch of ammo. I ran several through the press after these with no issue.
Spot checking trimmed cases shows within tolerance on several cases.

I need to process more. I will measure case length / Gage all brass after size and crimp to see what's going on.

GunBum · Apr 1, 2020

Too much crimp is collapsing the shoulder.

85MikeTPI · Apr 1, 2020

Usually happens to me when switching headstamps and forgetting to check/reset the seating die. I originally was trying
to kiss the case with the seating die crimp, but if separate crimp die, just back the seating die a full turn or more and recheck
COAL.

John from MD · Apr 1, 2020

kalister1 said:
Thanks all.
I seat and crimp in two separate dies. Lee factory crimp die only crimps.
I have only seen this on one batch of ammo. I ran several through the press after these with no issue.
Spot checking trimmed cases shows within tolerance on several cases.

I need to process more. I will measure case length / Gage all brass after size and crimp to see what's going on.

Where you loading flat based bullets by any chance? If so, without a good chamfer, this can happen.

kalister1 · Apr 1, 2020

John from MD said:
Where you loading flat based bullets by any chance? If so, without a good chamfer, this can happen.

Yes, they are Flat.

I use an RCBS case processing unit. Inside and outside De-Bur along with Primer pocket (countersink?)

I will slow down and see what I see.

I damaged/destroyed about 100 out of 1000 in the last batch. With the XL650 all dies stay in place and the entire head is swapped for caliber changes. First time I have seen this in ~10,000 rounds loaded on that machine. I have not changed or adjusted anything in that time.
I guess I got too complacent after all those good rounds that I stopped gaging and actually inspecting every round out of the machine. Time to stop that.

Once again, thanks to all!

dist1646 · Apr 1, 2020

Upon taking a closer look at the pic, it looks like there is a good bit of the channelure above the case mouth. The bullet may just need to be seated a bit deeper in the case before crimping.

kalister1 · Apr 1, 2020

85MikeTPI said:
Usually happens to me when switching headstamps and forgetting to check/reset the seating die. I originally was trying
to kiss the case with the seating die crimp, but if separate crimp die, just back the seating die a full turn or more and recheck
COAL.

I do need to verify that the seating die is out of contact with the case. Again that is why I and looking a length. Too long of a case could be hitting the seating die and starting to crimp before I get to the Factory Crimp Die. It seems the issue is either the Flat based bullet or my size die is not pushing the shoulder back?
I size on a Lee turret press then trim de-bur and clean. Now I have good clean brass to run through the press. If the shoulder is not set back correctly the trimmer I use refences the case neck length off of the shoulder and that could be the issue.
I don't THINK the crimp die is the problem as I have loaded ~10,000 rounds without touching any die adjustments?
SO I need to gage everything out of the size die and then again after trimming to isolate the issue to flat based bullets if all dimensions are good?

Any and all comments welcome and appreciated. After all the hours in just processing the brass I hate to trash 100 rounds!

kalister1 · Apr 1, 2020

dist1646 said:
Upon taking a closer look at the pic, it looks like there is a good bit of the channelure above the case mouth. The bullet may just need to be seated a bit deeper in the case before crimping.

I will look into that too.

BigRick · Apr 1, 2020

Bullet seating die is screwed in too far. Basically crimping the bullet while seating causing the shoulder to bulge like that. Trust me and don’t ask how I know.

Melnic · Apr 1, 2020

BigRick said:
Bullet seating die is screwed in too far. Basically crimping the bullet while seating causing the shoulder to bulge like that. Trust me and don’t ask how I know.

Thats what happened to me on 8mm mauser once.
Shoulder was fine until I seated the bullet. I was not using a die that locks the nut down and it moved on me when I was screwing it in.
The lee dies come with a nut that can move on me. all my seating dies, rifle full case , and FCD all have a locking nut on them so they don't move anymore.

John from MD · Apr 1, 2020

BigRick said:
Bullet seating die is screwed in too far. Basically crimping the bullet while seating causing the shoulder to bulge like that. Trust me and don’t ask how I know.

Yup, Unscrew the die out 1 turn. That will give you lee way on cases that may be a little too long.

kalister1 · Apr 1, 2020

Thanks again, I'll see if I have any more room to back it out and still get the OAL I am after.

JMV · Apr 1, 2020

Just happened to me when moving my seat/crimp die from my AP to my single stage. I didn’t adjust the seat when going to the single stage and crushed the tops
Of the case. Figured it out when I put it in a gauge.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kalister1 · Apr 12, 2020

I sized a WHOLE BUNCH of cases and trimmed them. My trimmer (Worlds Finest Trimmer) was either packed full of Brass or out of adjustment?

Cases were sticking out of the case gauge, over max. Cleaned and reset to 1.75 minus a little bit. I will try again with cases that are to dimension.

(It is a little case with a bearing and an End Mill.)
Look Here: https://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/

John from MD · Apr 12, 2020

I have been using a Lyman trimmer for maybe 45 years or so(last 15 years with a drill instead of crank). If you mount it in a comfortable position, it can be very fast and, once set, it doesn't change.

outrider58 · Apr 12, 2020

I use the WFTs on a drill press at a higher speed(than a hand drill). They tend to throw the shavings out the side ports better. I still check/reset them before running a bunch of brass through them.

Bulged at Neck 223 Case

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