School re-districting in HoCo?

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  • pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,151
    I took a little time to look at the moves, it seems like gerrymandering for the sake of diversity.

    Oakland Mills loses 505 kids and gains 565 kids. (net +60)
    Atholton loses 951 kids and gains 786 kids. (net -165)
    Hammond loses 467 kids and gains 337 kids. (net -130)

    Thousands of kids being moved around for little net effect.
    Moving 200 kids from River Hill to Glenelg makes sense if its re-striking a boundary due to expanding population.
    Carving up neighborhoods for the sake of change doesn't make sense.
     

    pleasant1911

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 12, 2012
    10,221
    I guess the school admins in HoCo believe, if you put bad kids in good schools and good kids in bad schools, schools will all be better. Hammond HS is the worst. lots of students who will stop being semi productive after HS, and start getting on the system for their future income.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,278
    HoCo
    The changes are bad for some schools as it pushes kids from lower property value housing into some schools and kids from higher property value housing out. The gain/loss per school is to shift polygons from one side in and the other side out.
    I only looked at the movements near me and from what I can say, most of it makes sense to me. The movement local to me pushed polygons that were closer to the new schools to the new schools. SOME of the polygon movement for Atholton actually pulls homes that are already closer to the new school they are moving to. Some polygons that moved from Atholton to Hammond were Hammond 10+ years ago. I actually would have thought my Middle School-er would have moved to a different school then currently distracted but that did not happen (yet). since we changed schools for a home move. The other school I felt would be just as good (maybe better as kids on her hockey team are at the other one and its closer to the HS).
    If you want to compare to Gerrymandering, the current Atholton district is more like that as it snakes through and pulls higher income and newer homes into an area that is much older.

    The way they show statistics to try to show math tests etc I think just will bring people to get mad as some schools will go down. They are better off just not even mentioning that. I think it should just be about balancing out population and geography. Otherwise just call it "bussing"

    Unless you can put a halt to home building, we will see this continue in 5+ years from now.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    The shift is pretty much to move kids from the east toward the west, and in my specific case to find a place for the kids whose parents are buying in the new Turf Valley development of 1,500 units wherein an ES is not slated to be built until 2029. Who the heck comes up with this nonsense? The gist of it is that there is more unused capacity out west where there has been less development because of the lack of sewer/water. The east side of HoCo has been developed like a SOB and the schools have not been able to keep pace.

    Kids that live close to my kids' ES will now have to go to Bushy Park ES. Essentially, these kids live east of route 32 and will have to go to Bushy Park ES on route 97.

    As far as the "diversity" thing is concerned, I have about had it with both "diversity" and "equity". Don't get me wrong, I am fine with people of differing races, religions, etc. moving into my neighborhood, but we bought in a more expensive neighborhood so we are not around the lower economic levels. I seriously mind "diversity" when it is across the economic stratosphere. Having attended PTACHC meetings for an entire year, and hearing the crap that came from the east side, I don't want my kids going to school with their kids. They want to send their kids to school sick, let the school nurse etc. determine that they are sick, and then pick them up after school. One lady said, "Not all of us can afford to take a day off of work to take care of a sick child." My head just about exploded. Well, if that is the case, then don't have kids, don't buy more than you can afford, etc., but sure as hell don't send your sick kid to school to infect everybody else just because you have to go make a dollar to make ends meet and would prefer to leave your sick child in the nurse's office instead of picking them up from school early.

    My kids' ES is slated to go from 85% capacity to 141% capacity and a $4,000,000 capital outlay will need to be made to the septic system. Kids from Turf Valley will end up going to my kids' elementary school and then once ES #45 is built, they will have to be redistricted again. Granted, that is in 2029, when my currently unborn child will be done with elementary school. Complete nonsense if you ask me.

    Personally, I want to know who is footing the bill for the Turf Valley ES #45, why it is taking so long to build it, and how does Turf Valley and other development in the area affect the MS and HS attendance?

    What I am hearing through the grape vine is that some white person has complained that there are no minorities on the redistricting committee. Well, from what I have heard through the grapevine, not a single minority applied to be on the redistricting committee. Now, the grapevine is right about 80% of the time, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Lastly, great post by Melnic with all the pertinent information included in it.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,985
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Part of the overcrowding at certain schools in the eastern part of the county is that the housing developments are not supposed to be built unless the local skrool(s) has the capacity to handle the new influx of chil'ren. But, after just a few years the development gets to proceed regardless of the current or projected capacity of the skrools. We are going through this with our church and the development of a new 88 townhome community next door. The developers all know that they submit all the paperwork and just have to wait the 3-5 years after approval and then it's game on.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Part of the overcrowding at certain schools in the eastern part of the county is that the housing developments are not supposed to be built unless the local skrool(s) has the capacity to handle the new influx of chil'ren. But, after just a few years the development gets to proceed regardless of the current or projected capacity of the skrools. We are going through this with our church and the development of a new 88 townhome community next door. The developers all know that they submit all the paperwork and just have to wait the 3-5 years after approval and then it's game on.

    And therein is the problem. The developers, and indirectly the new homeowners, should have to bear the burden of the construction of new schools to support the development. The current taxpayers should not have to foot the burden of people that are coming in. Then again, here in Howard County we wait 15 years after a development is started to build a new elementary school. So, I guess the "new" homeowners in the development will have paid their dues into the system before they see that new shiny elementary school in their now 15 year old development. A couple can move into that development, have a child, and the child would be in high school before that elementary school is built.

    I can do without most of this "growth". In fact, I could do without all of it. Didn't really need the new Harris Teeter and all the garbage that goes along with it, but like moths to a flame, my wife and I shop there anyway.
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,151
    As far as the "diversity" thing is concerned, I have about had it with both "diversity" and "equity". Don't get me wrong, I am fine with people of differing races, religions, etc. moving into my neighborhood, but we bought in a more expensive neighborhood so we are not around the lower economic levels. I seriously mind "diversity" when it is across the economic stratosphere. Having attended PTACHC meetings for an entire year, and hearing the crap that came from the east side, I don't want my kids going to school with their kids. They want to send their kids to school sick, let the school nurse etc. determine that they are sick, and then pick them up after school. One lady said, "Not all of us can afford to take a day off of work to take care of a sick child." My head just about exploded. Well, if that is the case, then don't have kids, don't buy more than you can afford, etc., but sure as hell don't send your sick kid to school to infect everybody else just because you have to go make a dollar to make ends meet and would prefer to leave your sick child in the nurse's office instead of picking them up from school early.

    I'm just curious at what dollar figure of gross family income you start finding people unsuitable as neighbors?
    :popcorn:
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    North of 108 and west of 29, there is an county ordinance that you walk around with your nose in the air and talk down to those who make less than $250,000.

    Also, the "I love Goodwill" on your Lexus is a requirement.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    I'm just curious at what dollar figure of gross family income you start finding people unsuitable as neighbors?
    :popcorn:

    Well, the average household income in my area is $176k, so we can start with that as an average, but there is obviously a +/- to it.

    https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/maryland/21794

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Friendship,_Maryland

    Let's not kid ourselves. Most people move into the nicest area and nicest home they can afford, but not all. Most people do not want to see HUD homes put in right next to their $800k house, or low rent apartments, Section 8, etc. just so they can commingle with the poor. They definitely do not want a crack house right next door either. Do you think Warren Buffet and Bill Gates live in the projects? They have so much land that their neighbors are probably in a different zip code.

    Now, there is a difference between neighbors and friends. I'm friends with people all along the economic spectrum. Meanwhile, I'm not friends with some of my neighbors. lol

    Then, think about foreclosures. Having a couple of those in the neighborhood surely doesn't help with property values.

    Hopefully, that is enough for you to get through your bag of popcorn.
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,151
    Well, the average household income in my area is $176k, so we can start with that as an average, but there is obviously a +/- to it.

    The average household income in my area is $256k.

    Do you think it would be safe for my snotty nose brats to go to school with your snotty nose brats?

    Do you see where I'm going with this?

    There are plenty of hard working people with good values who live east of 29 (or wherever your DMZ line is defining people of the east). To say that all of them are unworthy of sitting at the lunch table with Fabs Jr. is silly.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,985
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    The average household income in my area is $256k.

    Do you think it would be safe for my snotty nose brats to go to school with your snotty nose brats?

    Do you see where I'm going with this?

    There are plenty of hard working people with good values who live east of 29 (or wherever your DMZ line is defining people of the east). To say that all of them are unworthy of sitting at the lunch table with Fabs Jr. is silly.




    Plenty of affluence in the east part of the county, it's just more pocketed. Our zip code has an average household income of $120K but it also is primarily an AACo zip code that happens to duck into very far east HoCo.

    I would guess that the average household income on our court is over $200K.


    Plenty of affluent neighborhoods off Montgomery Rd just west of 95 as well.
     

    ericoak

    don't drop Aboma on me
    Feb 20, 2010
    6,806
    Howard County
    The three communities with Police Substations, Wilde Lake, Oakland Mills, and Long Reach. Hmmm, I wonder if that is random....
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Those are not the only "community police" substations. There's one on Owen Brown, and one in Ellicot City too.

    The perennial question in Howard County- If the kids in Clarksville buy their drugs from the kids in Oakland Mills, where do you put the community police substation. :lol2:
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    The average household income in my area is $256k.

    Do you think it would be safe for my snotty nose brats to go to school with your snotty nose brats?

    Do you see where I'm going with this?

    There are plenty of hard working people with good values who live east of 29 (or wherever your DMZ line is defining people of the east). To say that all of them are unworthy of sitting at the lunch table with Fabs Jr. is silly.

    What are you in, the 20777 zip code? If so, median household income using the Census data that I used for my zip code is $194,825. If I have the wrong zip code, let me know which is the right one and I'll see if I can come up with that $256k. When comparing snot to snot, we should be comparing apples to apples.

    https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/maryland/20777

    So, your snotty kids can share a table with my snotty kids anytime.

    You want to hear some irony. Yes, labeling the east side as I do is kind of like labeling Baltimore City the way so many people on here do. As though there isn't a single hard working person with good values in Baltimore City.

    Kind of like labeling a bunch of people with Hispanic names caught fishing illegally by a bridge as "illegals immigrants" without knowing a single thing about them other than an Hispanic name. Nah, not a single one of them could be a hard working person with good values that just screwed up for the first time in their life. Oh, the irony is hilarious, and downright silly for sure. The Board of Accountancy and the Md Bar treat DNR violations like traffic citations as long as they are not too egregious or too frequent.

    So, why did you buy on the west side? Because the schools are better? Because the crime is lower? Because the neighborhood is nicer? Because the yard is bigger? Just take a look at school ratings between the two different areas. Any idea where the 6 model elementary schools are located? They are newer construction with an interactive projector in every room. Well, they are on the east side.

    Yes, I have friends on the east side, and they are hard working and with good values, and if they could afford to move they would. Sadly, I do not believe they are the majority. Just like I believe some of said type can be found in Baltimore City, but they are not the majority either.

    There has been plenty of talk about closing the education gap. To me, it sounds like no kid left behind. We all know that genetics plays a part in intelligence. Not necessary education, but intelligence. So, are we closing the education gap by holding the more intelligent kids back or by having all the kids excel to their fullest.

    As far as I am concerned, the motto should be, "We are getting your kid to be all that your kid can be, just like a US Marine."

    If I recall correctly, your kids are out of the school system. I have another 18 years in this school system IF we stay here. I just spent 3 years being heavily involved with the school system. Wonder if you would feel as though this is "silly" if you were as involved with the school system as I have been.

    Equity? Every man is created equal? Great catch phrases. Then there is reality.
     

    GolfR

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 20, 2016
    1,324
    Columbia MD
    If the plan goes forward that was presented on the HoCo website, there are going to be some majorly pi$$ed off people just north of Rt100 around Rockburn. They are going to be moved to the Long Reach high school instead of Howard High. Those are some pretty nice houses and neighborhoods that are going to be moving to the "slum" of Columbia.

    Unfortunately for me, we will always be in the Long Reach HS area. We knew this when we bought our house and plan to move before our son hits middle school.
     

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