Primer opinions

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  • Neutron

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2014
    1,532
    severna park
    I want to load some .357 mag rounds but I don't have any small pistol magnum primers, only small or large pistol primers. The Lyman manual calls for small magnum pistol primers. I'm loading 158g copper played bullets and Bullseye powder. Would a small pistol primer work? Would I need to adjust the amount of powder? Should I just wait until I get the right primers?
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Bullseye does Not require magnum primers . Bullseye is the sterotypical powder that is easy to ignite .

    Yeah, yeah , we bombard everyone with a zillion disclaimers to follow all reloading data Exactly . And almost always that's a good thing .

    But in this instance of Bullseye, using the actually proper standard primer instead of the misapplied magnum will still give perfect ignition , and slightly lower pressures .
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,730
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Bullseye will work but isn't really a good powder for .357. If you are loading 158gn bullets, you are limited to 4.8 gns which will give you a little less than 1000 fps. However, due to the large case volume, ignition will be erratic with standard primers. You can try tilting the barrel up after each shot to put the powder closer to the primer for better consistency.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    I didn't go there before , but what is your handloading goal for Bullseye & .357 ?

    Maximum level Magnum loads ?
    Absolute minimum mouse fart loads ?
    " Standard, recreational " loads, at levels of .38 spl , or a little above ?

    For first , Bullseye isn't best choice . Will max out on pressure before typical Magnum velocities are reached , and the pressure curves are spiking steeply as approaching max . ( If you want full power loads for .357 , we can pontificate at length . Start a thread on that, and it will get kicked around for multiple pages .)

    For second , avoid plated or jacketed bullets , and use cast instead . And probably lighter than 158 for absolute minimum recoil .( But bullseye is suitable powder.)

    For third , Bullseye will work fine
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,154
    Look in several manuals and you will find different things specified, in Modern Reloading by Richard Lee it says "small pistol primers". But like Bigfoot says it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

    But once you work up your safe load if you decide to change anything like your primer then go back and re work up a new load for the new mix of components.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    With certain slow powders , in magnum revolvers , there are legitimate differences of opinion of best primer. ( Think Blue Dot and 2400 , and 4227 for classic examples )

    More frequently , a data provider will simplify things by arbitrarily standardizing primers either for an entire cal , or for a particular powder , regardless of specific loading . Such data will be " trusted " , in the context that as tested in their labs, the loads were safe . But they won't necessarily be optimized .

    It's a long discussion in itself , but I usually come down on the side of standard primers when could go either way .
     

    Neutron

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2014
    1,532
    severna park
    Third choice. Plinking at the range. I have two .357 cal rifles, a Marlin 1894 and a Ruger 77/357 that are just range guns. Bullseye is the only powder I've ever used for pistol caliber loads. I haven't been loading that long so my experience is limited. The only .357 pistol that I have is a Ruger SP 101 2 1/2" barrel that I rarely take to the range. It is not fun to shoot, especially with.357 ammo.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Disclaimer, Disclaimer, etc, etc .

    5.0gr of Bullseye, std primer , your bullets , in .357 cases, will give aprox same velocity as a 158gr .38spl +P . Is that a useful neighborhood that you were thinking ? Should be a comfortable load for your SP101 .
     

    Gunner220

    Member
    Jul 24, 2012
    47
    If you have 2400 it does not require magnum primers and gives excellent results with most bullet weights. The big ass fireball is a bonus!

    Oops missed the bullseye part. You're gonna have to change bullets or powder. A full wadcutter will work with Bullseye in a mag case with small primer. Volume/ignition is not a problem due to the space taken up by the bullet.

    Been reloading for 45 years. I used to buy some Bullseye, Unique, and 2400 and was good to go. Those were about the only options with the exception of some European powder makers. I'm sure there were a few by Hodgdon and maybe Winchester. There are just so many choices in terms of powders today you can go crazy or broke figuring out what to do.
     

    LGood48

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 3, 2011
    5,959
    Cecil County
    Alliant web site shows the following for a 158 gr LSWC. Data should be OK for your plated bullets.

    357 Magnum; 158 gr Speer LSWC; Primer - CCI 500 (standard SP); 4.8 gr Bullseye; 939 fps.

    I loaded .357 for many years and never used magnum primers. Never had a problem. Used Lee data.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    I load Bullseye under 158gr plated bullets all the time, 6.5gr gives a nice warm 1200FPS(Middle charge for Lee jacketed data). Sme claim plated needs lead data(varies by comapny, Xtreme says jacketed, Rainier says lead, Berrys says use whichever is less), but I get velocity far closer to jacketed data than cast, and never get pressure signs till I am near or at the top of jacketed data. I like bullseye BECAUSE it is easy to light, works well in large cases with standard primers. Gives a nice warm load that doesn't beat up brass, and is very accurate out of wheelguns and my Win 92 carbine clone. 6.5gr of CFE pistol is a nice one too, about the same power level. Of course you can load it softer, but I use 38 brass for that, and fast burning powders are not intended for full power loads, H110/296 is king for those.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,561
    Harford County, Maryland
    I have used Bullseye in 357 Magnum cases with 148 grain and 158 grain bullets with excellent results for eons, specicically 3.3 to 4.0 grains and lead bullets. Bullseye is not typically used to achieve maximum magnum class velocities. It is typically used for lighter loads. Its fast burn rate gives fast internal pressures quickly to obturate the bullet base and seal the bore resulting in excellent accuracy in that application. Magnum class powders build pressure more slowly with peak pressures occuring later. If higher or magnum class velocitues are the goal then an appropriate powder should be selected.

    When it comes to magnum revolver cartridges going from light to heavy loads I generally use:
    Bullseye: target/match lighter loads (600-850 fps);
    Unique: medium speed loads (900 - 1075 fps);
    Blue Dot: standard magnum velocities (1100 - 1300 fps);
    2400 and H110: magnum/top end loads (1300 - 1700).
     
    Last edited:

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Been reloading for 45 years. I used to buy some Bullseye, Unique, and 2400 and was good to go. Those were about the only options with the exception of some European powder makers. I'm sure there were a few by Hodgdon and maybe Winchester. There are just so many choices in terms of powders today you can go crazy or broke figuring out what to do.

    Huh?

    I have been reloading for 42 years, and there were a LOT of powders available.

    Pretty much the entire Hercules (now Alliant) line. A number of Hodgdon and Winchester powders. IMR (mainly rifle).

    Hercules, for pistol, had Bullseye and Unique (that you mentioned), Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot, Herco, 2400 (mentioned).

    Hodgdon had HS-5 and HS-6.

    Winchester also had pistols powders.

    I think Accurate was around also. I will have to check my 1976/77 reloading manuals to be sure.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,730
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Accurate came in around late seventies or early eighties. Alcan powder was available until S&W bought them up in the early eighties I believe. AL 5 was a bullseye powder if memory serves.

    That said, when I was shooting Bullseye, most of us used Hercules Bullseye and Red Dot. If you had more money in your pocket, you could afford Winchester powders. :rolleyes:
     

    Gunner220

    Member
    Jul 24, 2012
    47
    Huh?

    I have been reloading for 42 years, and there were a LOT of powders available.

    Pretty much the entire Hercules (now Alliant) line. A number of Hodgdon and Winchester powders. IMR (mainly rifle).

    Hercules, for pistol, had Bullseye and Unique (that you mentioned), Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot, Herco, 2400 (mentioned).

    Hodgdon had HS-5 and HS-6.

    Winchester also had pistols powders.

    I think Accurate was around also. I will have to check my 1976/77 reloading manuals to be sure.

    Sorry Bro, I did mention that there were other powders available, specifically Hodgdon and Winchester. I guess my access to Hercules powders caused my statement. I remember the "dot powders" being primarily thought of as shotgun powders back in the day. Thanks for the help
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Sorry Bro, I did mention that there were other powders available, specifically Hodgdon and Winchester. I guess my access to Hercules powders caused my statement. I remember the "dot powders" being primarily thought of as shotgun powders back in the day. Thanks for the help

    HS-5 and HS-6, as well as Bullseye and Unique are also shotgun powders.

    Blue Dot was a favored magnum powder. I think I still have a cardboard round container of some. A later can, with the pour spout.

    No problem, you seemed to be saying that was all there was.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,561
    Harford County, Maryland
    Blue Dot is excellent for magnum velocities but is a barrel burner if you try to push it too hard. It will get a little hairy when pushed to hard also. Keep in where it belongs and you will be happy with the results.
     

    pcfixer

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2009
    5,947
    Marylandstan
    Anyone tried Titegroup? I've used Titegroup in 38 spl and 45ACP -45 LC. shoots accurately for me.
    powder position in large cases (45 Colt, 357 Magnum and others) has virtually no effect on velocity and performance.

    I shot this load 45 acp 230 gr round nose. Large Pistol Primer-usually winchester

    Bullet Weight
    230 GR. LRN
    Manufacturer
    Hodgdon
    Powder
    Titegroup
    Bullet Diam.
    .452"
    C.O.L.
    1.200"
    Starting Loads
    GRS.
    VEL.(FT/S)
    PRESS.
    4.0
    751
    12,500 CUP
    Maximum Loads
    GRS.
    VEL.(FT/S)
    PRESS.
    4.8
    855
    17,000 CUP
     

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