MrsRab1515
Active Member
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Last edited:
Mike Smigiel's thoughts on Hogan
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CrazySanMan
2013'er
First, Hogan isn't really a republican. He is farther left than Colorado's democrat governor Hickenlooper on just about every issue. Hogan can only be called a republican in liberal strongholds like MD, NJ, CA, or maybe NV. I wouldn't call a gun grabbing RINO a step forward. He might be 1/2 a step back instead of a full step back, but he's still moving back.
The redistricting argument is simply not true.
The governor submits a plan for redistricting. The MGA also works on a plan for redistricting. If the MGA can't pass a redistricting plan in a certain amount of time the governor's plan is enacted, but if the MGA passes a plan theirs is enacted. The MGA will never let a "republican" governor's plan succeed.
Now, if Maryland republicans began fighting and demanding better candidates ten years ago, you might be in a better position with more MGA seats than you have now. You can start now and plan for the 2030 redistricting, if there are any R's left in Maryland by then.
MrsRab1515
Active Member
He's more conservative than any other realistic option in MD, and letting MD citizens see an "R" by their governor's name might make it more palatable for them to pull the "R" lever in the future. Just because it's not as good as CO doesn't mean it's not a step forward for MD.
I understand how redistricting works, thanks. I'd rather have the slight possibility (hence "chance") of a map drawn by an R governor than the guarantee of a map drawn by a D, be it governor or MGA.
We managed to wrestle the governorship from the D's in 2014, and many here are getting ready to hand it right back over, giving back any ground we've covered in the last four years.
dist1646
Ultimate Member
If the founding fathers had believed that, we would still be English subjects!
When you are in a fight, fight to win!
Unfortunately, you start with a flawed premise.....that Maryland will elect someone more conservative than Hogan. A Pro-2A platform is going nowhere fast, here. If you don't live in one of the "big 3" counties, you don't understand what a scourge liberalism is in this state. I live in Harford, and am generally surrounded by like-minded people. Go spend some time in PG or Montgomery County and see how many hearts and minds you can win over with a conservative platform. You would be pissing into the wind.
Perhaps you're right, im not infallible and im always willing to learn.
Does little r republicanism involve placing party over priciples? Does it involve giving up essential liberties? Maybe i am using the phrase the wrong way.
CrazySanMan
2013'er
When Hogan is the only "conservative" you are in serious trouble.
How did Maryland get to see Hogan as a Champion of Conservatism? By the republicans constantly voting for the candidate who bad, but not quite as bad as the other guy. At some point you need to take a stand and break that cycle. Until that point, it's 8 more years of slow decline at best and rapid decline at worst. I say 8 because Hogan winning now will ensure another RINO as a republican candidate in 2022.
-Its not a step forward because the man is a Republican In Name Only.
-Again and again, Hogan CANNOT unilaterally redraw the districts. The MGA(Read Mike & Mike) have the final say.
-How does rubber stamping Hogan Conservatism (read moderate liberalism), lead to more conservative candidates in the future? As has been stated here many times, and will be affirmed when Larry win, truly conservatives need not apply for election, they arent welcome here.
CrazySanMan
2013'er
I lived in Parkville in Baltimore County, a Joe Flacco pass from the city line, most of my life. I worked in Rockville and Greenbelt for about the last 10 years I lived in Maryland (commuting from Parkville daily), so I know all about Montgomery and PGC and Baltimore City.
I've said in other posts in other Hogan threads that you don't need a Tackleberry to run for governor. You need someone who would have vetoed 1302, not someone who would have called for it.
You might see Hogan as "helping" the 2A because he's not as anti-gun as Jealous is, but Hogan is still anti-gun and in 2022 your 2A rights will be worse than they are now no matter who is in the governor's mansion. How does that help?
Boondock Saint
Ultimate Member
excellent post.
Thank you, gentlemen. I'm occasionally capable of semi-coherent thought.
Behold the politics of fear.
"We have to vote for Trump/Romney/McCain because Hillary/Obama will destroy America!"
"Vote for Hillary/Obama or else Trump/Romney/McCain will start World War III!"
Sound familiar? It's the same argument from both "sides," just different names inserted over the years.
"Gotta vote for Hogan because Jealous will have us all on bread lines."
"Gotta vote for Jealous so he can restore the third world ghettos of this state into centers of cultural revolution."
If the cycle is allowed to continue, in part because voters refuse to see past the veneer of ********, when does the shining knight on the white horse come to our collective relief? It certainly won't be after the voters prove to the MDGOP that RINOs like Hogan are what the people want.
Indeed. Come late June 2022 after our open Republican primary, there will be a chorus of people who will demand that we form in lockstep behind the gubernatorial nominee because he's what we've got, and the other guy will bring the third world ghettos to our doorstep. It's easy to see if you look for it.
MrsRab1515
Active Member
Getting a more conservative, more 2A-friendly candidate in this state is a non-starter. The populace rejects it. Those of us who can't leave must do what we can to hold the line while we work at changing hearts and minds on the individual level.
Fixing the districts would help, too, so that the swaths of conservative areas can actually see some real representation. Hogan may not be able to unilaterally redraw the districts, but perhaps he can get a bill passed that gives that authority to a non-partisan third party. Maybe he can do it before 2020. I know Jealous won't even try.
Unfortunately the governor's office is weak when held by an R thanks to our friends in the MGA. But the one-two punch of D governor plus D MGA would mean there's no point in trying anymore. As far as 2018 is concerned, it's Hogan or bust. Rejecting Hogan means, realistically, de facto Jealous. Why on earth would we think that's better? Sure, it would be great if a more conservative candidate had a chance. But that's not the reality we live in.
Fixing the districts would help, too, so that the swaths of conservative areas can actually see some real representation. Hogan may not be able to unilaterally redraw the districts, but perhaps he can get a bill passed that gives that authority to a non-partisan third party. Maybe he can do it before 2020. I know Jealous won't even try.
Unfortunately the governor's office is weak when held by an R thanks to our friends in the MGA. But the one-two punch of D governor plus D MGA would mean there's no point in trying anymore. As far as 2018 is concerned, it's Hogan or bust. Rejecting Hogan means, realistically, de facto Jealous. Why on earth would we think that's better? Sure, it would be great if a more conservative candidate had a chance. But that's not the reality we live in.
Might make it more palatable for some to vote for Hogan but not for all of us.
The -R- next to Hogan's name fooled some of us in '14, not going to fool us in '18.
CrazySanMan
2013'er
Sounds like you already gave in and quit.
The irony is that a Jealous term or two will lead to more conservative republican candidates. Another Hogan term will lead to another left-shift and a moderate democrat running with an R next to his or her name. Jealous and Hogan will both drive the state left for the next 4 to 8 years, but Jealous might help the state swing a bit more right afterwards while Hogan will continue it to the left.
MrsRab1515
Active Member
Hogan was a right swing after O'Malley.
No, quite the opposite. What you describe is "big R" Republicanism.
CrazySanMan
2013'er
We'll agree to disagree on that. Hogan didn't swing as far left as Owe'Mao Li did so it makes it look like he's going right but as a whole I believe Hogan's actions have been more left of center.
For many years and election cycles I fell for the fear-mongering put forth by the Republican party. Every election was the election of our lifetimes, and there would be dire consequences if I didn’t vote for their candidate.
And after I helped elect those candidates to office, I watched our national debt skyrocket, watched the erosion of freedoms and essential liberties, saw new beaureacratic agencies created, saw them take us wars not of neccesity, but of choice, saw the tentacles of big, nanny state government further intrude into American’s lives, and watched as they took the very same actions they told me the other, evil party was going to do.
I realized that there isn’t a damn bit of difference between the two corrupt, major parties. Further, that the shell game they play can’t exist without the other party acting as strawman. And we eat that shit like candy.
I have unshackeled myself from this enslavement. I no longer buy into their fear-mongering, and I vote the candidate that best
reflects my values and beliefs, regardless of party. It may be an R, it may be a L, and even occasionally it’s a D.
I don’t vote for candidates that infringe on essential liberties, and certainly not for ones that leverage that liberty for political gain, and then disregard it when a new political expediency is needed.
These type of people stand for nothing other than their own political power. They are traitors to the Constitution they took an oath to support and defend.
I have watched Hogan happily sign gun control bills into law surrounded by the gun-grabbers, stood by as he has not used techniques at his disposal that would ease burdens on 2A, has now stated that he would refuse an NRA endorsement, and has written an opinion piece touting his desire for deeper, and further infringements on the 2A.
I don’t know exactly who I’ll be voting for, but pretty sure I’ve ruled out a couple of candidates so far.
And after I helped elect those candidates to office, I watched our national debt skyrocket, watched the erosion of freedoms and essential liberties, saw new beaureacratic agencies created, saw them take us wars not of neccesity, but of choice, saw the tentacles of big, nanny state government further intrude into American’s lives, and watched as they took the very same actions they told me the other, evil party was going to do.
I realized that there isn’t a damn bit of difference between the two corrupt, major parties. Further, that the shell game they play can’t exist without the other party acting as strawman. And we eat that shit like candy.
I have unshackeled myself from this enslavement. I no longer buy into their fear-mongering, and I vote the candidate that best
reflects my values and beliefs, regardless of party. It may be an R, it may be a L, and even occasionally it’s a D.
I don’t vote for candidates that infringe on essential liberties, and certainly not for ones that leverage that liberty for political gain, and then disregard it when a new political expediency is needed.
These type of people stand for nothing other than their own political power. They are traitors to the Constitution they took an oath to support and defend.
I have watched Hogan happily sign gun control bills into law surrounded by the gun-grabbers, stood by as he has not used techniques at his disposal that would ease burdens on 2A, has now stated that he would refuse an NRA endorsement, and has written an opinion piece touting his desire for deeper, and further infringements on the 2A.
I don’t know exactly who I’ll be voting for, but pretty sure I’ve ruled out a couple of candidates so far.
CrazySanMan
2013'er
