Women's personal safety/ new shooter class needed

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  • miles71

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Jul 19, 2009
    2,522
    Belcamp, Md.
    Sorry but I disagree with "Women only" type classes except for the "Women in target" seminar from the NRA. The reason I'm ok with it is because it is VERY basic and an introduction to hopefully get people interested in more training.

    No matter the gender of the instructor or student, professional is professional and unprofessional is unprofessional. Classes and training should be taken because of the value of the instruction and instructor, not their gender. Check around and find good training, take it with a friend if you'll feel better.

    Lately the majority of my students have been female for basic courses like HQL. I'm glad to see this and happy to help them learn.

    TD
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    A Good Instructor is broadly knowledgeable with a multitude of techniques , and how to teach students with a variety of physical sizes and upper body strength levels .

    There is no inherent difference between Male shooting and female shooting , other than statistical averages of size and hand & arm strength , and lots of overlap .


    That said , this is still a semi- free , semi- capitalist country . There is indeed a customer demand for Women orientated firearms instruction , either all female students , or female instructors . ( Not sure how female instructors with mixed students fall in the mix ).

    If there's a demand , there will be resources flowing to meet it , more power to them, Economics 101 . If particular Instructors/ training venues can attract more clients by offering tailored sessions , Economics 101 . If availability of Women themed classes attract clients that otherwise would not have sought training , double Win- Win .
     

    knovotny

    Active Member
    Feb 5, 2013
    980
    Aberdeen, MD
    There are a LOT of women that aren't terribly comfortable around men for whatever reason. Especially with the current requirement of very small class sizes. Being nervous already, and then having an instructor they may not be as comfortable with, is not a good combination. Add in other men in the class trying to show off. (It happens) and it can be obnoxious. There's a market for all women's classes, and they have been successful. This woman doesn't need it mansplained to her why she shouldn't want an all woman class. I'm proficient and still have men sometimes act some kind of way around me shooting. I'm also comfortable around pretty much everyone, and men still sometimes act embarrassing (to themselves) around women shooters. Women tend to be more supportive of each other in these situations. There are a number of women specific things when it comes to firearms. Fit and recoil being the big 2.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    There are a LOT of women that aren't terribly comfortable around men for whatever reason. Especially with the current requirement of very small class sizes. Being nervous already, and then having an instructor they may not be as comfortable with, is not a good combination. Add in other men in the class trying to show off. (It happens) and it can be obnoxious. There's a market for all women's classes, and they have been successful. This woman doesn't need it mansplained to her why she shouldn't want an all woman class. I'm proficient and still have men sometimes act some kind of way around me shooting. I'm also comfortable around pretty much everyone, and men still sometimes act embarrassing (to themselves) around women shooters. Women tend to be more supportive of each other in these situations. There are a number of women specific things when it comes to firearms. Fit and recoil being the big 2.

    This ⬆⬆⬆. All day long. She ain't wrong.

    Want the women in your life able to protect themselves? Mothers? Daughters? Wives?

    Encourage them to get the training they themselves want, from whomever they themselves want, and with the firearm they themselves want. So long as all are of known good quality.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    I'm not a female ,and nobody can read their minds . But I have been told by instructor who do both mixed and female only classes that their impressions are that it is more often a matter of the fellow students , than the instructor(s) per se .

    Everyone's mileage may vary of course , and viva la free market .
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,819
    The Damascus Izaak Walton frequently has training classes focused on women. I checked the calendar and nothing for the rest of the year, but maybe something for next year?
    Both my wife and daughter have taken this course. It's NRA certified and qualifies as HQL training. :thumbsup:
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    There are a LOT of women that aren't terribly comfortable around men for whatever reason. Especially with the current requirement of very small class sizes. Being nervous already, and then having an instructor they may not be as comfortable with, is not a good combination. Add in other men in the class trying to show off. (It happens) and it can be obnoxious. There's a market for all women's classes, and they have been successful. This woman doesn't need it mansplained to her why she shouldn't want an all woman class. I'm proficient and still have men sometimes act some kind of way around me shooting. I'm also comfortable around pretty much everyone, and men still sometimes act embarrassing (to themselves) around women shooters. Women tend to be more supportive of each other in these situations. There are a number of women specific things when it comes to firearms. Fit and recoil being the big 2.

    But an all woman class with a male instructor is cool, right? I think this is where it was going. Not talking mixed class. And many guys are jack hats when they get around women and they think they can shoot. All the sudden it becomes a competition instead of learning.

    And recoil management is the same for a woman as it is for a man.
     

    knovotny

    Active Member
    Feb 5, 2013
    980
    Aberdeen, MD
    But an all woman class with a male instructor is cool, right? I think this is where it was going. Not talking mixed class. And many guys are jack hats when they get around women and they think they can shoot. All the sudden it becomes a competition instead of learning.

    And recoil management is the same for a woman as it is for a man.

    For some women it is, but for some it's not, especially ones who may be arming themselves because of domestic violence.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Recoil management different because of recent injuries , or their wishing to avoid all males ?
     

    knovotny

    Active Member
    Feb 5, 2013
    980
    Aberdeen, MD
    Wishing to avoid all males. Although I can imagine a womans perspective on other things such as recoil and grip could be helpful too. A big man with big hands has a different perspective than someone with small hands. However, a good instructor should understand that I would hope. With long guns, a woman has first hand experience on what kind of bra to avoid.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,819
    Wishing to avoid all males. Although I can imagine a womans perspective on other things such as recoil and grip could be helpful too. A big man with big hands has a different perspective than someone with small hands. However, a good instructor should understand that I would hope. With long guns, a woman has first hand experience on what kind of bra to avoid.
    That may be true for some, but not all.
    If there is a lack of women firearms instructors(and I believe there is), then it's up to women to fix that.

    ...and as far as big man hands go, I remember a certain date...
     

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    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,471
    MD
    I went back and asked her the question that was raised here. As many have noted, it's the gender of her fellow students that's the bigger concern than the gender of the instructor. She doesn't want a class with men as fellow students because of the "bro" factor as the guys all try to impress the instructor with how much they already know. While the mechanics of shooting are indeed the same for everyone, she wants to ensure that the kind of guns she's handling are more appropriate to a woman. Any of us who've ever taken a smaller person to the range know that you need guns with smaller grips, smaller recoil and you work up from there. She wants an instructor who understands that and isn't going to give her too much handgun and tell her that this caliber is the entry level for self defense, deal with it.

    TL;DR- guys can be competitive dumbasses around guns, she doesn't want to deal with that. Her hands are small, she wants to be shown guns which are appropriate.
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,021
    Harford County
    I know that the AGC would periodically host NRA Women on Target classes. I belive they were put on by Monumental. Someting like that seems perfect.
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,312
    Underground Bunker
    I love that women are wanting to learn , so for that reason there should be an outlet for that . By that i mean women classes with male or female instructors . I think the biggest problem at least this year with the scamdemic is the problem of women in classes are magnified .
    We as a gun community need to be thoughtful about this segment of training , hopefully the OP's friend will find a class that fits her needs .
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    I went back and asked her the question that was raised here. As many have noted, it's the gender of her fellow students that's the bigger concern than the gender of the instructor. She doesn't want a class with men as fellow students because of the "bro" factor as the guys all try to impress the instructor with how much they already know. While the mechanics of shooting are indeed the same for everyone, she wants to ensure that the kind of guns she's handling are more appropriate to a woman. Any of us who've ever taken a smaller person to the range know that you need guns with smaller grips, smaller recoil and you work up from there. She wants an instructor who understands that and isn't going to give her too much handgun and tell her that this caliber is the entry level for self defense, deal with it.

    TL;DR- guys can be competitive dumbasses around guns, she doesn't want to deal with that. Her hands are small, she wants to be shown guns which are appropriate.
    I'll disagree. My small female coworkers carrying and concealing P229s all over the world had no issues.
    One female, who you probably know, uses her middle finger for her trigger finger and can probably outshoot most guys here.
    I don't subscribe to any of the "disadvantages" women think they have.
    Especially when it comes to a home defense situation using, which for the novice, should be a revolver.

    Why can't you give her a "5 minute block of instruction"?
    I would.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,819
    I'll disagree. My small female coworkers carrying and concealing P229s all over the world had no issues.
    One female, who you probably know, uses her middle finger for her trigger finger and can probably outshoot most guys here.
    I don't subscribe to any of the "disadvantages" women think they have.
    Especially when it comes to a home defense situation using, which for the novice, should be a revolver.

    Why can't you give her a "5 minute block of instruction"?
    I would.
    True. Daughter can't handle the G43(can anyone?). It's too small for her hands. Prefers the 17.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    True. Daughter can't handle the G43(can anyone?). It's too small for her hands. Prefers the 17.
    Well, especially when it could come down to 1 gunshot.
    I've taught similar women. We laid down on a tarp on the ground like it was a bed, reached over to grab the gun off "the nightstand" and shot towards the bedroom door (target).

    There are certain attack scenarios one should be most worried about.

    I'd teach any woman for free in this situation. Learning what to do during the house invasion of more important than marksmanship skills on a range.
     

    Lane Meyer

    Active Member
    Jul 20, 2020
    212
    Cecil County
    With long guns, a woman has first hand experience on what kind of bra to avoid.

    Funny, I took a female friend shooting clays recently. She’s a more experienced handgun shooter than me but it was her first time shooting a shotgun. She asked in advance for advice and the first thing I thought was to warn her about bra strap placement. My wife had a mean bruise from the stock sitting on her bra strap after a day of clays. Men can know bra stuff too. :)

    My wife doesn’t like women only courses, events, etc. but that’s her personality. I get where some women prefer it.
     

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