USCCA Membership

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • onedash

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 24, 2016
    1,026
    Calvert County
    I saw there was a post several years ago with not much discussed. Just wondering if this is more widely used and if anyone has any first or second hand knowledge of how it works? It seems better than carry guard and they offer a 10% military discount and covers family members in the home.

    In my research I found that they don't seem to consider a firearm locked in a safe to be a safeguarded firearm.

    And since a firearm owners liability presumably ends if they report a firearm stolen I don't think I am too worried about that. Aside from the boating accidents I have seen mentioned from time to time why wouldn't someone who has a firearm stolen not report it? Besides MD requires it for "regulated" firearms.
     

    Marshmallow

    Active Member
    Feb 4, 2012
    781
    So as I wait for my wear and carry permit, I called the USCCA to ask if their insurance covered if I was wrongfully arrested for presumably being outside my restrictions. I spoke with a really nice guy who wasn't aware of the strange rules regarding our Maryland permits. He sent my questions up to their law team and in the meantime sent me a list of their Maryland rapid response team lawyers. While I waited I spoke with the one of the lawyers associates who surprisingly was knowledgeable about the restrictions on the wear and carry permit. Back to the USCCA. The same guy I spoke to earlier called me back and said that no, the insurance does not cover what I'm asking, but that they highly recommend speaking with the lawyer I had spoke to earlier, and see if they could help me arm my self with knowledge on interpreting some things. I'm reluctant to post what I have in mind in terms of working with the lawyer just yet. If I get the result I'm looking for, I'll gladly share.

    Overall, the USCCA was very helpful with my questions, and the gentleman I spoke with on the phone has emailed me multiple times over the last few months, just checking in like an old friend would. Never once was I pressured to sign up (haven't yet, but I plan to) and yet they still treat me like family. their general call center doesn't have an option to reach a specific person, but they all work in the same office and have been great with getting my call sent back to the gentleman I have dealt with. He also took the time to research Maryland specifically, and is fairly knowledgeable on our state. If anyone would like his name or email, pm me and I'll send it to you.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    I joined the same day my MD permit showed up in the mail. I contemplated asking the very same question (whether their insurance covered the legal costs of running into trouble surrounding restrictions), but it seems self-evident that's not an incident of self-defense, per se. Now, if you get friction about your restrictions in the wake of actually having to defend yourself, the lawyer they're buying for you would presumably provide a little help that way. Too many possible twists and turns to predict, I imagine.

    I did shop around the several key offerings (the NRA's program and others), and USCCA seemed like the most bang for the buck, especially because their coverage isn't restricted only firearm use. Basically, if I have to deck some clown with a fist to defend myself, they're ready to work for you, while the NRA's plan isn't. And coverage for my wife was a cheap add-on, so frosting on the USCCA cake. Hope I never, ever have to even think about it. But even having to brandish your carry piece to stop an assault could get you in a bankruptcy-level legal event, so it's crazy not to spend the same on this as you would on that extra box of ammo at the range once in a while.
     

    Marshmallow

    Active Member
    Feb 4, 2012
    781
    I joined the same day my MD permit showed up in the mail. I contemplated asking the very same question (whether their insurance covered the legal costs of running into trouble surrounding restrictions), but it seems self-evident that's not an incident of self-defense, per se. Now, if you get friction about your restrictions in the wake of actually having to defend yourself, the lawyer they're buying for you would presumably provide a little help that way. Too many possible twists and turns to predict, I imagine.

    I did shop around the several key offerings (the NRA's program and others), and USCCA seemed like the most bang for the buck, especially because their coverage isn't restricted only firearm use. Basically, if I have to deck some clown with a fist to defend myself, they're ready to work for you, while the NRA's plan isn't. And coverage for my wife was a cheap add-on, so frosting on the USCCA cake. Hope I never, ever have to even think about it. But even having to brandish your carry piece to stop an assault could get you in a bankruptcy-level legal event, so it's crazy not to spend the same on this as you would on that extra box of ammo at the range once in a while.

    I figured the answer would be what I got, but I worded it that it would be self defense against the state, to which they agreed, but it wouldn't be covered.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    I joined the same day my MD permit showed up in the mail. I contemplated asking the very same question (whether their insurance covered the legal costs of running into trouble surrounding restrictions), but it seems self-evident that's not an incident of self-defense, per se. Now, if you get friction about your restrictions in the wake of actually having to defend yourself, the lawyer they're buying for you would presumably provide a little help that way. Too many possible twists and turns to predict, I imagine.

    I did shop around the several key offerings (the NRA's program and others), and USCCA seemed like the most bang for the buck, especially because their coverage isn't restricted only firearm use. Basically, if I have to deck some clown with a fist to defend myself, they're ready to work for you, while the NRA's plan isn't. And coverage for my wife was a cheap add-on, so frosting on the USCCA cake. Hope I never, ever have to even think about it. But even having to brandish your carry piece to stop an assault could get you in a bankruptcy-level legal event, so it's crazy not to spend the same on this as you would on that extra box of ammo at the range once in a while.

    CCWSAFE covers non firearm weapons as well. And family members. I guess you didn't read their plans.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    CCWSAFE covers non firearm weapons as well. And family members. I guess you didn't read their plans.

    I did. Which is why I mentioned the difference between NRA & USCCA in that regard. I evaluated all of the offerings in detail, and while there is significant overlap in some areas, there are gaps, or changes in the level of coverage, or differences in the way the lawyers are compensated or what you're on the hook for depending on different outcomes. A lot of moving parts. A dispassionate analysis landed me at USCCA. I'm not married to them, it's one year at a time, so we'll see. Can always change horses if I see fit, but I'm happy enough.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    Why would they cover you if you were arrested outside of your restrictions? That means you were at fault.

    Well, not necessarily. That's exactly the point. You can get arrested because the officer you're interacting with THINKS you are. If you can't make an "articulated" case clearly enough on the spot to that officer, you're in for a legal adventure. Doesn't mean you're at fault - at least, not for anything worse than being bad at explaining why the officer has made the wrong call. Which is exactly when a lawyer would be really handy, to make those charges go away.

    But that possibility is exactly why everyone should be bringing their newly issued permit (and the inevitable restrictions) before the review board. I'm waiting on a response from them about a requested hearing, specifically to remove those restrictions and the legal ambiguity that comes with them. I'm on call 24x7 for my business. But that doesn't mean I never go to the movies with my wife, officer ... though I may have to leave that moment and head into a work situation, and not stop back home, first. Am I "doing business as" while I'm having a sandwich in between two activities that are clearly work related? Depends which officer you ask, and there's the problem.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    Well, not necessarily. That's exactly the point. You can get arrested because the officer you're interacting with THINKS you are. If you can't make an "articulated" case clearly enough on the spot to that officer, you're in for a legal adventure. Doesn't mean you're at fault - at least, not for anything worse than being bad at explaining why the officer has made the wrong call. Which is exactly when a lawyer would be really handy, to make those charges go away.

    But that possibility is exactly why everyone should be bringing their newly issued permit (and the inevitable restrictions) before the review board. I'm waiting on a response from them about a requested hearing, specifically to remove those restrictions and the legal ambiguity that comes with them. I'm on call 24x7 for my business. But that doesn't mean I never go to the movies with my wife, officer ... though I may have to leave that moment and head into a work situation, and not stop back home, first. Am I "doing business as" while I'm having a sandwich in between two activities that are clearly work related? Depends which officer you ask, and there's the problem.

    Out of restrictions is basically an "Admin arrest", not a use of force arrest/situation for which insurance is for. No different than say if someone got arrested for CCW in a post office. Why should the insurance company cover that?
     

    Marshmallow

    Active Member
    Feb 4, 2012
    781
    Why would they cover you if you were arrested outside of your restrictions? That means you were at fault.
    There is a really good case that was posted by MSI. A gentleman was arrested, while acting within the bounds of his permit, by officers who thought he was not. Luckily he was able to afford a lawyer. Not everyone is.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    There is a really good case that was posted by MSI. A gentleman was arrested, while acting within the bounds of his permit, by officers who thought he was not. Luckily he was able to afford a lawyer. Not everyone is.

    It's not a use of force arrest.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    But you have to defend yourself for a firearm related offense.

    Correct, a use of force arrest.
    You know how many of these "cases" throughout the country they would have to defend fi they did cover them? Because those events happen way more than actual use of force shoots.

    If you were a company, would you cover them too? Sure, for 100 bucks a month probably.
     

    Marshmallow

    Active Member
    Feb 4, 2012
    781
    Correct, a use of force arrest.
    You know how many of these "cases" throughout the country they would have to defend fi they did cover them? Because those events happen way more than actual use of force shoots.

    If you were a company, would you cover them too? Sure, for 100 bucks a month probably.

    Maryland is the only state that issues a permit with the restriction of "while conducting business as owner of XXXXX llc"

    If I lived in Va and carried in to a restricted place, then that is my own fault. But here in Md, if I'm working, and I have a police interaction, and subsequently they don't believe that I'm inside the bounds of my permit, I will be arrested, at no fault of my own.

    Two very different scenarios.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    Out of restrictions is basically an "Admin arrest", not a use of force arrest/situation for which insurance is for. No different than say if someone got arrested for CCW in a post office. Why should the insurance company cover that?

    I didn't say they should. I said that's a good reason to attempt to get your permit altered so you don't have to take on those potential legal costs in the first place.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    Maryland is the only state that issues a permit with the restriction of "while conducting business as owner of XXXXX llc"

    If I lived in Va and carried in to a restricted place, then that is my own fault. But here in Md, if I'm working, and I have a police interaction, and subsequently they don't believe that I'm inside the bounds of my permit, I will be arrested, at no fault of my own.

    Two very different scenarios.

    I carry under LEOSA. I don't have to comply with whatever states who say you can only carry FMJ ammo. IF some cop who doesn't know about LEOSA arrests me for having hollow point, I don't see where my carrier should have to defend me, because that isn't a use of firearm incident. Sucks, but I am pretty sure that is not what these companies are in business for. Again..... the amount of those cases would be more prevalent thus costing a lot of money every month. Then raising the costs. Then no one would buy the insurance.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    I'm just seeing where people are saying they should. Who are you replying to?

    I don't know anymore because this marshmallow guy has his same post in 2 different threads. I have a headache. Must be all the pixel pics playing head games on me :D
     

    Marshmallow

    Active Member
    Feb 4, 2012
    781
    I don't know anymore because this marshmallow guy has his same post in 2 different threads. I have a headache. Must be all the pixel pics playing head games on me :D

    I pasted it to the other thread in case anyone wanted the name of the USCCA rep I spoke with. That's all.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,931
    Messages
    7,259,493
    Members
    33,350
    Latest member
    Rotorboater

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom