Vehicle Transport Questions

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  • Blackbeard

    Member
    Jan 1, 2019
    21
    I’ve read the law and the letters posted here in other threads from the AG and still have a few questions.

    Under MD law:

    Is it legal to transport a handgun and ammunition/loaded mags in the same locked container (ie a padlocked pelican type box) in the back of my SUV, specifically a Tahoe, or do they need to be separate even if locked?

    In the letter from the AG it sounds as if it is legal to carry a handgun in a holster on your person if it is unloaded and the ammo is out of reach and locked in a case as long as you are transporting to one of the excepted reasons/locations. Is the correct? Not planning on doing this, really more curious on the law interpretation after reading the letter.

    Under FOPA:

    It says if no separate compartment then either firearm OR ammo must be in a locked case, but can they both be in the same case if locked?

    Sorry for the newbie questions.

    Thanks
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    My answers in red. IANAL.
    I’ve read the law and the letters posted here in other threads from the AG and still have a few questions.

    Under MD law:

    Is it legal to transport a handgun and ammunition/loaded mags in the same locked container (ie a padlocked pelican type box) in the back of my SUV, specifically a Tahoe, or do they need to be separate even if locked?

    Yes, legal But no separation required under the MD Statute 4-203. No lock required. MD law only stipulates unloaded in an enclosed case or enclosed holster. AG opinion on what he views as an "enclosed holster"attached below

    In the letter from the AG it sounds as if it is legal to carry a handgun in a holster on your person if it is unloaded and the ammo is out of reach and locked in a case as long as you are transporting to one of the excepted reasons/locations. Is the correct? Not planning on doing this, really more curious on the law interpretation after reading the letter.

    Nothing in any statute MD or Federal states "out of reach". FOPA (Federal law) does require that in a vehicle with a trunk the firearm and ammunition be in that location unloaded but not separated.. In a vehicle without a trunk EITHER the firearm OR ammunition be in a locked case.

    MD has no such requirement,


    Under FOPA:

    It says if no separate compartment then either firearm OR ammo must be in a locked case, but can they both be in the same case if locked?

    I would say that complies with the intent of the law. Just my opinion. IANAL

    Sorry for the newbie questions.

    Thanks

    I'm sure the ill informed folks who always chme in that in MD you must go directly from your home to the allowed locations. Simply not in the statute, but IMO it is prudent to do that if you can. But not in the MD statute.

    These are my interpretations. Others may disagree. That's fine.
    .
     

    Attachments

    • AG opinion enclosed holster.pdf
      123.5 KB · Views: 169

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    The above aligns with my understanding. Part of confusion comes from the interrelation between MD statute and FOPA. If your journey starts and ends in MD, MD law applies. If your journey starts in MD and crosses into another state, FOPA now applies. If you end your journey (or that leg) by, say, stopping at a hotel, that state law applies.
     

    buddy357

    Member
    Apr 6, 2015
    23
    It seems there’s a lot of confusion. I attended a range safety class at aafg a while back and they claim a loaded magazine even locked up in the trunk is considered the same as a loaded gun in md.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    No confusion. Just ignorance. They are wrong according to the AG.

    Opinion attached.

    A loaded mag is not only NOT a loaded gun, it can be transported in any manner you choose, as long as it's not in the firearm.

    Don't get legal advice from RSO's or gun store counter guys.

    IANAL either. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!
    .
     

    Attachments

    • AG Opinion Loaded mags.pdf
      37.5 KB · Views: 162

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    It seems there’s a lot of confusion. I attended a range safety class at aafg a while back and they claim a loaded magazine even locked up in the trunk is considered the same as a loaded gun in md.

    This was the stated opinion back in the 70s through 90s.

    But no longer, due to AG written opinion.
     

    Adolph Oliver Bush

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Dec 13, 2015
    1,940
    It seems there’s a lot of confusion. I attended a range safety class at aafg a while back and they claim a loaded magazine even locked up in the trunk is considered the same as a loaded gun in md.




    Agreed there is a lot of confusion, and misinformation is being spread. That is why I always refer people to 4-203 and the AG letter as Swinokur has done. The AG letter is a surprising ray of hope in this otherwise dismal landscape of 2A rights, Constitution-damning state. It should be noted that there has not exactly been a rash of unjustified shootings because MD law does not require ammo/gun separation, or a lock.


    And welcome Blackbeard! Please head over to the Introductions forum and, well, introduce yourself. Lots to learn here about how bad guns are not.
     

    Rack&Roll

    R.I.P
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    22,304
    Bunkerville, MD
    When transporting home from the range ALWAYS watch your mirrors for anyone following you.

    If in doubt, or you want to detour to pick up a pizza on the way home, make two U-turns where legal and verify that no vehicle attempts to stay with you.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Great advice given that there have been reports of auto breakins to vehicles parked after a trip to the range. It is assumed the thieves may have followed the vehicle on its return from the range.

    If you park with firearms in the vehicle, at least insure they are locked in the trunk if available or out of view of both LE and potential thieves.
     

    RuralRifleGuy

    Active Member
    Aug 16, 2018
    918
    Queenstown
    Ok I've read the past threads and was still confused, it seems that I've been following FOPA rules since my vehicle has no trunk (SUV). I've been transporting handguns in a range bag and the loaded magazines in a locked ammo can. This thread cleared up things so thank you Blackbeard for asking the questions and everyone else for their answers.

    As long as they are not in the firearm, the magazines could be in the range bag as well since I am in MD, my range is in MD, and I never leave the state during a range trip. So I've been lugging around a locked ammo can for no reason the last several months while going to the range.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    One of the best things about MDS is the exchange of info that makes shooting easier, safer and LEGAL in most cases
     

    Kman

    Blah, blah, blah
    Dec 23, 2010
    11,987
    Eastern shore
    I still feel like I'm breaking a law (or some poor interpretation of it) when I routinely carry in DE with Utah ccw.
    Leave home with empty pistol locked in cabled safe in trunk or rear part of truck cab.
    Loaded mag(s) and top off round in console.
    Drive the 3 miles to put me in DE.
    Discreetly load up and holster and go about my day.
    Reverse order when close to home.

    I can't think of a more legal or stupider way to do it...so it might be good enough for MD.
     

    Bikebreath

    R.I.P.
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 30, 2009
    14,836
    in the bowels of Baltimore
    Unloading to return to Maryland, or going from one state to another is a great reason for a national carry law. The more frequently you are “playing” around with your firearm is more opportunitiy for a discharge.
     

    DaytonaGreg

    Member
    Apr 14, 2014
    23
    Severn, MD
    I know I’m paranoid but I still lock firearm in a case and place range ammo in locked ammo can just in case there are ignorant police officers, and/or to make them feel safe. AND in unlikely event I’m ever charged with anything (never even a misdemeanor yet) the locks are for the jury who will hopefully roll their eyes at the court. Yeah, I’m too paranoid. We need National Constitutional Carry. I tried it out in West Virginia just to check it off the bucket list and see what the comfort factor was like. I had a carbon fiber IWB but I think I might want to switch to a hybrid IWB instead. I’d like to get some property and retire in West Virginia, where the Constitution is respected by the law. #2A
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,154
    I know I’m paranoid but I still lock firearm in a case and place range ammo in locked ammo can just in case there are ignorant police officers, and/or to make them feel safe. AND in unlikely event I’m ever charged with anything (never even a misdemeanor yet) the locks are for the jury who will hopefully roll their eyes at the court. Yeah, I’m too paranoid. We need National Constitutional Carry. I tried it out in West Virginia just to check it off the bucket list and see what the comfort factor was like. I had a carbon fiber IWB but I think I might want to switch to a hybrid IWB instead. I’d like to get some property and retire in West Virginia, where the Constitution is respected by the law. #2A

    I am just as paranoid as you. Everything is in locked cases (a pistol rug with a dollar store luggage lock is a locked case and an ammo can with a chain around and lock so the lid won't open) and everything is covered (blanket or tarp) so no items are visible. I know the law but the soccer mom who freaks out at the sight of a gun or the cop that stops you for some reason may not. A little extra trouble to prevent a hassle and something your attorney can argue about in court if necessary is cheap insurance.
     

    deputyG23

    Member
    Oct 8, 2017
    18
    No confusion. Just ignorance. They are wrong according to the AG.

    Opinion attached.

    A loaded mag is not only NOT a loaded gun, it can be transported in any manner you choose, as long as it's not in the firearm.

    Don't get legal advice from RSO's or gun store counter guys.

    IANAL either. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!
    .

    I visited my son in Baltimore a couple of years ago and went shooting at Free State Range east of the city. The employee at the counter was a little distressed that my son had his SIG P228 magazines loaded when he checked our firearms. He said that it was illegal in MD to have loaded mags while in transport.
    Next time we go, I will have the AG's letter in hand....
     

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