oversize bullets

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  • Snav

    Active Member
    Feb 27, 2013
    349
    Montgomery Co.
    While researching bullets for my 25-06 I saw a few in 6.5 that had BC of better than .6 at a weight of 105gn. Back when you'd get Winchester bulk bullets in 60# quantities(3360ea of 125gn JHP .357) we used to swage some with Corbin sizers to .355 with no issues.

    But the Corbin page says .006 is max reducing size due to springback and resulting core seperation issues which would leave me with a .258 bullet.

    Looking for some insight.


    FWIW I found this and wonder how many lawyers would pass out reading it.

    FrankenMauser
    Senior Member

    Join Date: August 25, 2008
    Location: 1B ID
    Posts: 10,595
    Firing over-sized bullets with mild or moderate loads (tested safe in the weapon) is not an issue.

    And, when it comes to lead bullets...
    I suggest nay-sayers give P.O. Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders, Vol. 1 a read. There is an article that discusses this very issue. The climax of that article:
    Mr. Ackley had customers asking what to do with generous throats or chambers in .30-06 or 8mm-06 rifles. His solution? Leave the .308" or 8mm barrel on the rifle, but open the chamber to .35 Whelen, and shoot .35 Whelen ammo with lead bullets. When fired, the .358" lead bullet is drawn down to groove/bore diameter, doesn't cause pressure issues, and is quite accurate.

    One of the most respected gunsmiths and experimental ballisticians of this century is telling you to fire .35 caliber bullets in a .30 caliber bore.... and people continue to argue over 0.001".

    It's standard reloading practice:
    Start low, and work up.
    __________________
    Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
    FrankenMauser is offline
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    I have reloaded for my 25-06 for many, many years (read many, many decades).. and there is no way I would ever try to stuff a .264 bullet in there, no matter what I did to it, short of a lead bullet (no plating or jacketing) that has been resized to .001" over (pretty standard for lead bullets). That said, I would never shoot lead (even coated) at those velocities (.258)(and yes, I have shot many a lead bullet through my 308 that were coated and sized properly).

    You are just asking for issues. Get some .257 bullets and load em up!
     

    K-43

    West of Morning Side
    Oct 20, 2010
    1,881
    PG
    Please don't fire 6.5 bullets down your .257" bore.
    "Frankenmauser" there isn't putting his face on the stock and risking his eyes, hands, and brain housing group. He's just an anonymous and irresponsible poster on a website. He might recommend swallowing Tide Pods instead of Gain Pods on another forum for all we know.
    I'll check my copy of Ackley's book tonight, but I don't think I'll find him recommending shooting 35 Whelen in a 30-06.
    He shot oversize bullets in rifles to see what would happen, yes. He also had them in a jig/machine rest and fired them remotely while he was behind a steel shield.
    People get surprisingly lucky doing exceedingly dangerous things. That doesn't make those things a safe practice.

    PS I may be a 12 year old who's now going to Google this Ackley guy for all you know. Check some more sources, like Sticky and Dist1646 above, and Ackley's book before taking my word for it.
     

    Snav

    Active Member
    Feb 27, 2013
    349
    Montgomery Co.
    So the consensus is, a .001 oversize bullet will blow up the rifle.


    BTW I did a modest scan of Ackleys book and didn't spot the aforementioned statement. I scanned all the Q&A twice but only did a cursory scan on the articles in the front. May have been in the data section.
     

    Snav

    Active Member
    Feb 27, 2013
    349
    Montgomery Co.
    Don't do it!
    If you want 6.5-06 performance, have it rebarreled to 6.5-06.

    I have my version of a 6.5-06 it's called a 280. I have a Mauser in 8mm-06AI and .35-06 in my Whelen chambering to go along with my Garand.

    It just seems that from 22-30cal is well represented except the .257
     

    Snav

    Active Member
    Feb 27, 2013
    349
    Montgomery Co.
    Oh, and .257 Weatherby Mag! I have a cousin who thinks that is the one rifle to have if you can have only one.

    I picked the 25-06 because my absolute favorite the .222 wasn't deer legal. And I wanted to use for both deer and groundhog. Also the idea of having inexpensive, plentiful(1972) brass was appealing.

    Weatherby almost got a sale when they introduced the payment plan but since I had to reload in order to afford to shoot the extra powder costs dissuaded me.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    So the consensus is, a .001 oversize bullet will blow up the rifle.


    BTW I did a modest scan of Ackleys book and didn't spot the aforementioned statement. I scanned all the Q&A twice but only did a cursory scan on the articles in the front. May have been in the data section.
    No, but trying to shrink bullets that are .007" over is asking for trouble, especially if they are jacketed. Many of the 6.5 bullets being introduced now are made more for the 6.5cm, which is chambered specifically to allow those high BC bullets to be used. The 25-06 isn't.

    I have had excellent accuracy at decently long ranges with my 25-06 using the wide variety of standard offerings in 257 and have taken game from groundhogs to mule deer with no issues at all. I don't consider it a 1k yd gun, though it can reach out that far, but it is quite accurate with reloads out to 500yds. It can be loaded with some pretty explosive varmint bullets or up to 120gr Nosler Partitions for heavier game.

    My go to load is an all around cartridge that uses 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tips that will blow the snot out of a groundhog and drop a whitetail in it's tracks.

    I cast my own bullets as well and I would size them .001" over after coating if I were to cast for the quarter bore, but I have never really found the need. I wouldn't try to shrink jacketed bullets that far, ever..

    FWIW, I love the 25-06. I think it is one of the best single calibers all around for any game in the lower 48, without a doubt.

    Oh, and I am building a 6.5 creedmoor gasser right now for a long range target rifle. Many of the newer 264 bullets with high BC's really aren't the best for hunting, but they will ring steel out to 1k yds!
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    I have my version of a 6.5-06 it's called a 280. I have a Mauser in 8mm-06AI and .35-06 in my Whelen chambering to go along with my Garand.

    It just seems that from 22-30cal is well represented except the .257

    That is why I decided to go the 6.5-06 route. The 6.5 has a far better selection of bullets. It is easy to form from 25-06 brass, one pass over the expander, load & shoot. I think A Square has factory ammo for the 6.5-06.

    From what I have read and been told by those who have 25-06 rifles, they either love them or hate them, they can be very finicky about the ammo they like. Even so, I'll probably add an early production Remington 700 Varmint Special in .25-06 to the collection eventually.

    I have a .280 also and it is one of my favorite hunting rifles.:thumbsup:
     

    Snav

    Active Member
    Feb 27, 2013
    349
    Montgomery Co.
    That is why I decided to go the 6.5-06 route. The 6.5 has a far better selection of bullets. It is easy to form from 25-06 brass, one pass over the expander, load & shoot. I think A Square has factory ammo for the 6.5-06.

    From what I have read and been told by those who have 25-06 rifles, they either love them or hate them, they can be very finicky about the ammo they like. Even so, I'll probably add an early production Remington 700 Varmint Special in .25-06 to the collection eventually.

    I have a .280 also and it is one of my favorite hunting rifles.:thumbsup:

    A friend and I got our m700 25-06s together but he got the varmint special and Bipod. We spent many summers shooting groundhog for various farmers from Clarksville to Ijamsville. His could shoot 1/4 moa where my sporter profile 24" would keep 5/8-3/4 at 200yds. However he once made the mistake of hunting with it up in the Frederick watershed, was almost ready to throw it down the mountain by end of day.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    A friend and I got our m700 25-06s together but he got the varmint special and Bipod. We spent many summers shooting groundhog for various farmers from Clarksville to Ijamsville. His could shoot 1/4 moa where my sporter profile 24" would keep 5/8-3/4 at 200yds. However he once made the mistake of hunting with it up in the Frederick watershed, was almost ready to throw it down the mountain by end of day.
    :lol2: Mine is an old M700 with a standard sporter barrel. I had it bedded in a fiberglass stock right out of the box when I was young and eventually replaced that when it cracked with a laminated stock. I have toted that rifle many miles and it will shoot 1/2 moa with handloads all day long.

    I prefer a heavy profile barrel, but sure not to lug around very far.. :lol2:
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Franken Mauser has determined oversize lead bullets are safe in his rifle according to my read. His basis is what? Has he determined the amount of lug set back prior to and after his testing or provided head expansion in the web area of the brass he was using and provide any data?
    Mr Ackley was a known experimenter and may have just been trying to demonstrate an alternative to a re-barrel using lead bullets. He certainly was aware that setting the barrel back one thread could restore accuracy to rifles with a worn leade using jacketed bullets and provide an additional round count to an existing barrel.
    I wouldn't worry about a .001 difference in a sound rifle using jacketed bullets. That could be inside the realm of manufacturing tolerances and the accumulated wear of any ordinary rifle barrel. Pull some some bullets and measure them, particularly in PPU ammo. Dont be surprised if you find out .311 bullets are the pill for your favorite o3 plinking rifle in random lots.
    6.5 jap comes right to mind, a lot of Mauser manufactured barrels Mosins etc. are all found with variances in land and groove dimensions.
    Attempting to use jacketed bullets over a significant measurement outside of .001 though I would try to avoid if accuracy was my concern for a dedicated purpose rifle unless there was an absolute need like a worn m17 that may respond to such a tactic. And they have a tighter bore than the often compared to 03 because of the number of grooves for the design spec are 5 and of equal width (lands and grooves) vs the four groove Springfield design of four grooves where they are three times as wide as the lands. Bore is tighter because the higher number of grooves (5) are opposite each other vs a land.
    So I dont know whats best for anybodies rifle but before I tried switching anything up in relation to selecting alternative bullet diameter there are a lot of points to ponder prior to exposing ones self to an irrecoverable act of damaging an expensive rifle, wasting valuable resources like time and ammo or at the very least beating myself up to excessive recoil unnecessarily without verifying a few mechanical necessities first.
     

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