308 load data

I am getting set up to reload .308 Winchester. The most cost effective projectile I have found is at Wideners, and it is a 147 grain jacketed bullet. I have only found recipes for 130gr, 150 gr and 155 gr. Can I use the slightly heavier 150 gr recipe as a starting point? I assume since the bullet is slightly lighter than expected, the pressure would be lower.

The 150 gr load data will work just fine.

It'll do as a starting point.

Don't waste your time with cheap 147 grain bullets. At very best they are 3 moa bullets. Get quality name brand bullets.

I use 150 grn date for my 147s. Never had an issue

dist1646 said:

The 150 gr load data will work just fine.

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Yep, virtually the same. For a weight difference of only 2%, I'd not make assumptions about pressure differences. Factors such as jacket/core hardness, bearing surface length and seating depth will play as much or greater parts in pressure variations. As always, start with a lower charge weight and work up.

Park ranger said:

Don't waste your time with cheap 147 grain bullets. At very best they are 3 moa bullets. Get quality name brand bullets.

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Agreed. They're not "cost effective", they're cheap (for a reason) approximations of milspec ball and unless you're just blasting, you'll likely be disappointed with precision. If I was going to shoot FMJ/ball bullets, I'd just buy milsurp ammo and save my reloading time for something worthwhile.

What sort of rifle are you running? Bolt gun? M1A, AR-10?

Nosler blems are cost effective. I buy 500 bags of 150 and 165 BTs and my M1A loves them. Nosler Ballistic Tips are among the most accurate hunting style bullets and my LTR will put them into one hole at 100 yards.

Clearance priced sporting bullets from places like Midway, Graff, Powder valley, etc. can be cost effective too. Do a search for "blems", "seconds" and/or "clearance" 308 bullets. If you'd consider spending your time loading 147s, you'd never notice blemishes. You can probably use anything in .308 diameter from 110 grains up to about 190 in most .308 rifles. Round nose, flat nose, spitzer...unless you're shooting a tube mag or self loader, you don't need to be particular if your aim is to save money. I've shot Sierra 125 grain flat points through my own .308 and they will do 1.5 moa or so, plenty good for position/close range work and much better than the average FMJ 147/150.

AR 10 (Anderson) with a Nikon M308 scope. New to rifle, new to rifle reloading, working to increase understanding and proficiency of both.

Would be interested in learning how you determined that the bullets mentioned are of poor accuracy. Personal experience? Manufacturer? something else?

FMJ bullets are made differently and it is the method of manufacture that causes problems with accuracy.

ras_oscar said:

AR 10 (Anderson) with a Nikon M308 scope. New to rifle, new to rifle reloading, working to increase understanding and proficiency of both.

Would be interested in learning how you determined that the bullets mentioned are of poor accuracy. Personal experience? Manufacturer? something else?

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Sometimes the FMJ isn't an even thickness around the core, due to the core being out of perfect. Match projectiles are about as close to perfect in every way possible.

OP, how much shooting do you do? At what range, what kind of rifle? And what are your expectations?

The General Dynamics 147 gr bullets are okay for plinking, but if you're interested in learning precision marksmanship you'll become pretty frustrated pretty quickly. Depending on the rifle, and your brass preparation and if you weight sort those bullets...you MAY be able to squeeze about 2 inch groups at 100 yds out them if you're shooting well. IMI's are a bit less consistent, and will probably produce 3" groups if you're shooting well.

Something to consider...reloading lets you customize the round to the rifle and produce ammunition that is store bought match grade quality or better for not too much more (and sometimes less) than what you could buy surplus / bulk plinker ammo for.

GD's are currently on sale at Widener's for $85/500 (or .17 a bullet) and IMI's for $75/500 (or .16 a bullet). The king of bullets for .308 mid range target shooting, the 168 gr Sierra MK is $179.50/500 (or .36 a bullet). Let's say that the typical shooting outing is about 100 rounds (if you're shooting for precision, taking your time, recording your call and plotting your shot and analyzing results, and not just blasting away). That is about a difference of $20 every time you go shooting. So, maybe the cost of a Starbuck's coffee and breakfast sandwich and a six pack of beer for after you're done shooting for the day.

Midway has match monster 175 gr (or 168 gr) bullets for $139.99 / 500 (or .28 a bullet), so a savings of about $12 for an outing. Maybe a bit more than the cost of a Chick Fil-A lunch on your way home.

Is it worth the savings? Totally subjective and depends on your goals...but for me...I'll cut my costs somewhere else and make match grade ammo.

As others have said previously, if you do decide to go with the 147 gr bullets, then you're fine with a starting load for 150 gr bullets and then work your way up. You could always buy a box and try them out. Let us know how they do.

OP, I"ve used those with my 30-06 Garand loads. My loads are on par in accuracy with Greek Surplus.
As mentioned, they are not a match bullet. I think the last time I got them was a year or so ago on sale at about $80/500
My cost effective slightly more accurate choice are the Hornady 3037
I am almost done with my SMK 150gr box which I loaded for accuracy for my Ruger American 308 and the Springfield 1903a3

dist1646 said:

FMJ bullets are made differently and it is the method of manufacture that causes problems with accuracy.

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Yeeeeaaaah, that's my new line! I can't shoot for s#!t but I like your reasoning better!

I quickly realized that the SMK 175gr with almost every powder I tried are my 700 5R 308's preferred diet. 4064 and varget seem to have the slight edge over others with CCI BR Primers. So last time I checked it was 50 cents per bang on powder, primer and powder. No store bought match ammo can touch it on price or accuracy. With neck sizing it seems that my brass will last forever (I will probably never shoot enough to wear it out). Will eventually try loading some up for my GII Recon as well but want to develop a hunting round for it first.

Aventus said:

Yeeeeaaaah, that's my new line! I can't shoot for s#!t but I like your reasoning better!

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And it's actually true. There was an article about the differences in construction vs accuracy in Precision Shooting magazine. They used to have some excellent and proven articles. Sadly, that publication closed it's doors.

ras_oscar said:

AR 10 (Anderson) with a Nikon M308 scope. New to rifle, new to rifle reloading, working to increase understanding and proficiency of both.

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AR-10s can be capable of excellent precision. I often saw them shoot sub-MOA.

It can be difficult to judge progress when your ammo isn't truly dependable. Trying to learn to shoot well with milsurp grade ammo or bullets will be frustrating, a waste of time and can actually take you backwards. It's hard to put your best into every shot when you know (in the back of your mind) that it almost doesn't matter anyway, yet you should focus to make every shot your best if you expect good results

Learning to handload will help you shoot well for less cost. While it can be tempting to try to save every penny, one will definitely reach a point of diminishing returns. Low quality and or poorly designed bullets are one of the few things that show right away on paper. You can shoot almost any reasonable powder type and not see a big difference in accuracy, especially in a .308. Same with primers and brass, but bullets....whew.

Would be interested in learning how you determined that the bullets mentioned are of poor accuracy. Personal experience? Manufacturer? something else?

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Personal experience.

dist1646 said:

FMJ bullets are made differently and it is the method of manufacture that causes problems with accuracy.

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In this case, definitely.

Bullets jackets come to a close around the core at one end or the other. Any variation in core characteristics or jacket dimensions will manifest itself as a dimensional variation where it is closed. In the case of a FMJ bullet design, this closure area is the base.

Unfortunately, the base of the bullet is most critical to precision, since it is the last thing to contact the rifle barrel. An irregular bullet base has exactly the same effect as a damaged rifle crown. Making FMJ bullets perfectly uniform at the base is next to impossible, This is the entire reason successful "Match" bullets are all hollowpoints. The closure is at the tip, which is surprisingly unimportant to close range precision. A bullet can take a lot of tip damage and not leave the group until you shoot so far out that the BC variation from tip variation starts to show as vertical dispersion.

DaemonAssassin said:

Sometimes the FMJ isn't an even thickness around the core, due to the core being out of perfect.

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Yep. and a dozen other things...

...Match projectiles are about as close to perfect in every way possible.

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True.

Major03 said:

OP, how much shooting do you do? At what range, what kind of rifle? And what are your expectations?

The General Dynamics 147 gr bullets are okay for plinking, but if you're interested in learning precision marksmanship you'll become pretty frustrated pretty quickly. Depending on the rifle, and your brass preparation and if you weight sort those bullets...you MAY be able to squeeze about 2 inch groups at 100 yds out them if you're shooting well. IMI's are a bit less consistent, and will probably produce 3" groups if you're shooting well.

Something to consider...reloading lets you customize the round to the rifle and produce ammunition that is store bought match grade quality or better for not too much more (and sometimes less) than what you could buy surplus / bulk plinker ammo for.

GD's are currently on sale at Widener's for $85/500 (or .17 a bullet) and IMI's for $75/500 (or .16 a bullet).

Click to expand...

Good points, and some FMJs are better than others, but none can approach the level of precision available in even the cheapest hunting style bullets,

The king of bullets for .308 mid range target shooting, the 168 gr Sierra MK is $179.50/500 (or .36 a bullet).

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This is true. If your standard rifle won't shoot 168 SMKs well, there is something wrong with it. A good 168 SMK load is an excellent tool with which to gauge shooter and rifle precision.

Let's say that the typical shooting outing is about 100 rounds (if you're shooting for precision, taking your time, recording your call and plotting your shot and analyzing results, and not just blasting away). That is about a difference of $20 every time you go shooting. So, maybe the cost of a Starbuck's coffee and breakfast sandwich and a six pack of beer for after you're done shooting for the day
Midway has match monster 175 gr (or 168 gr) bullets for $139.99 / 500 (or .28 a bullet), so a savings of about $12 for an outing. Maybe a bit more than the cost of a Chick Fil-A lunch on your way home.

Is it worth the savings? Totally subjective and depends on your goals...but for me...I'll cut my costs somewhere else and make match grade ammo.

Click to expand...

Yep. If you're shooting watermelons at 50 yards, your requirements will vary from when you shoot clay birds at 600.

As others have said previously, if you do decide to go with the 147 gr bullets, then you're fine with a starting load for 150 gr bullets and then work your way up. You could always buy a box and try them out. Let us know how they do.

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OP: I'd suggest that you experiment and see for yourself. Try some FMJs, but also look for some clearance priced bullets in the 150-75 grain range that are not FMJs to use for the bulk of your shooting. You'll want to be careful with design, since many rifles will shave lead off soft points and create issues. As I posted above, I like Nosler blems for inexpensive, accurate and effective projectiles that get along with most semi-auto rifles,

I would also spring for a box or two of good match bullets. Sierra Match Kings in 168 are probably the best you'll easily get, but Hornady Lapua, Norma and others make good match bullets.

You might find these articles helpful:
http://www.shell-central.com/Brass_Prep1.html
http://www.shell-central.com/Powder1.html

A very good test of the rifle and shooter is to pick up a couple boxes of Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. For .30, either the 168 or 175 grain. Sierra Match King bullets.

If you or your rifle cannot shoot these accurately, something is wrong.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/federal-gold-medal-match-308-175gr-sierra-matchking-bthp-20rds.html

Great Father's Day sale on FGMM 175 gr. $18.99 a box and free shipping! Time to celebrate yourself lol

I use Hornady A-Max bullets. 155s in the M1-A and 168s in the AR-10 and bolt gun, they shoot better than my eyes see these days. I get them when they go on sale at Midway. For the gas guns Rem 9-1/2 or CCI No. 34 primers, bolt gun Fed 210M or Rem 9-1/2. Varget in the bolt gun, H-4895 in the gas guns. Do a ladder test, load 3 sets of 10 from the high node, pick the one that groups best and call it done. You'll be MOA at least.

Do I need both a .308 case gage and a cartridge gage? Or can I get a cartridge gage, check after resizing to verify trim length, then use the same gage for COL after seating the bullet?

These are the gages I'm looking at:

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Reload...&qid=1528653731&sr=8-2&keywords=308+case+gage

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-3807...528653783&sr=8-2&keywords=308+cartridge+gauge

overall, what I am hearing is FMJ is less accurate than JHP. Correct?