Can a felon shoot rental guns

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  • lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,680
    IANAL but I believe (at least federally) felons can still own black powder

    Federally yes. For now MD yes, but they keep pushing to outlaw that also because one time some guy used a BP revolver to kill his ex.

    So one instance of a crime with a muzzleloader in...a century? Something like that in this state.

    This is why we can’t have nice things.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    That’s a big no. Possession covers physical access. So yeah, renting would be possession. It would not be a transfer.

    Hmmmmmmm. So how can a range rent you a machine gun and supressor without paying the $200 transfer tax. Times 2 even.

    Renting at a range is not possession, as long as it stays under the owners (FFL) control in the building.

    As a rule, ranges dont do background checks before they rent you a pistol.
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,234
    Carroll County
    The State Police run background checks on names on the sign in logs at ranges. Sometimes they visit the homes of patrons,
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    94,187
    Does anyone else ever wonder why a felon can no longer buy, own, possess, or shoot a firearm, but can still buy, own, possess, and use alcohol, automobiles, knives, ball bats, etc etc? I understand murderers, rapists, molesters, etc charged with heinous, violent crimes.
    It has taken me several years to change my mind on this, but I believe that once someone serves a prison sentence for a non violent, non firearms related crime, they’re “debt” has been paid and ALL rights should be restored upon release. Let’s face it, if someone wants a firearm, they’re going to get one. I do think that SOME would actually try to do it the right way and buy a gun legally. SOME buying one legally would be better than ALL buying them illegally.
    I imagine that there are going to be naysayers, but before you do, stop a minute and think of how many times all of us has probably, at some point broken a law that would’ve landed us in prison and didn’t even know it. I think there needs to be some revamping of the system.

    Repaid debt??? Not hardly.
    Until that murderer can bring their victim back to life... or the rapist unrape his victim... or the robber/burglar give the sense of security back to their victims... staying someplace in time out does not repay any debt to society. It merely punished the felon in an attempt to teach them not to do it again. Who ever came up with that repaid debt line... needs to rethink what repayment means.
    Hmmmmmmm. So how can a range rent you a machine gun and supressor without paying the $200 transfer tax. Times 2 even.

    Renting at a range is not possession, as long as it stays under the owners (FFL) control in the building.

    As a rule, ranges dont do background checks before they rent you a pistol.
    The renter of a full auto firearm at the range can not be a felon. And AIUI... a shooting range which rents full auto firearms... does so under special ATF rules which allow and heavily restrict the practice. Call the ATF or a full auto range for details.
     

    1time

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    2,258
    Baltimore, Md
    I’d bet the owners of the range wouldn’t be too thrilled about felons trying to rent and shoot on their premises.



    Felons rent guns at ranges all of the time. Then detectives go in, look at the list of who signed into the range, runs record checks on them, then gets a warrant for said felon.

    My neighbor went to freestate with his son and got popped this way.
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,234
    Carroll County
    The State Police run background checks on names on the sign in logs at ranges. Sometimes they visit the homes of patrons,


    What range records names?

    Felons rent guns at ranges all of the time. Then detectives go in, look at the list of who signed into the range, runs record checks on them, then gets a warrant for said felon.

    My neighbor went to freestate with his son and got popped this way.



    This.

    I don't shoot at indoor ranges, but my understanding is that they check driver's licenses when patrons sign in, or otherwise record ID.

    I have heard of other people getting "popped this way."

    I recall one guy posted here several years ago that he had carelessly picked up a Failure to Appear warrant, went shooting at Continental, and had the State Police show up shortly afterwards to collect his guns. That's what I read on the internet anyway...
     

    ChrisD

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 19, 2013
    2,992
    Conowingo
    What range records names?

    This.

    I don't shoot at indoor ranges, but my understanding is that they check driver's licenses when patrons sign in, or otherwise record ID.

    I have heard of other people getting "popped this way."

    I recall one guy posted here several years ago that he had carelessly picked up a Failure to Appear warrant, went shooting at Continental, and had the State Police show up shortly afterwards to collect his guns. That's what I read on the internet anyway...

    My wife and I visit BelAir Gun Range every so often. We have to present ID, and sign a form that we are not prohibited persons. Don’t remember the exact wording on the form though. So I’d be willing to bet that the range is being checked every once in a while by MSP.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    My neighbor went to freestate with his son and got popped this way.

    Not saying you are wrong- but I do know some people who rented pistols at a range, took the HQL class, then got to the end and realized they were disqualified because of some "old" yute indiscretions. None had the proverbial visitors at 5am. Some of these people hold down government jobs, lol.

    I think this is more common than you realize. Maryland has many "misdemeanors" where you can get multiple years (potentially) that make people prohibited for life. Many are walking around not realizing they have a firearms disability.

    Maryland made some felonies such as possession with intent to distribute expungeable after 15 years (see here: https://www.mdcourts.gov/district/forms/criminal/expungementpublicnotice_102018). True, fact.

    There is a lot of incorrect info and speculation in this thread (shock) - my advice is that individuals should consult an attorney on these matters based on their particularized circumstances. The advice you get in thread like this is worth every penny.
     

    Sirex

    Powered by natural gas
    Oct 30, 2010
    10,380
    Westminster, MD
    Aside from felonies, what about misdemeanors with "potential" sentences of over a year? I read another thread about a guy coming here from CA, and tried to register his guns or get the HCL. Now, the old saying is, a skilled prosecutor could convict a ham sandwich. There was also a book highlighting the way laws are constructed, where we violate so many laws per day. So, if someone were to commit a misdemeanor, and there is the potential for a year or more sentence, and they get probation, are they disqualified from renting handguns at a range too? Would the police look up their names in the book and come after them?
     

    Doobie

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 23, 2013
    1,777
    Earth
    Repaid debt??? Not hardly.
    Until that murderer can bring their victim back to life... or the rapist unrape his victim... or the robber/burglar give the sense of security back to their victims... staying someplace in time out does not repay any debt to society. It merely punished the felon in an attempt to teach them not to do it again. Who ever came up with that repaid debt line... needs to rethink what repayment means.

    The renter of a full auto firearm at the range can not be a felon. And AIUI... a shooting range which rents full auto firearms... does so under special ATF rules which allow and heavily restrict the practice. Call the ATF or a full auto range for details.
    Road Dawg you must have overlooked where I said murderers, rapists, etc. My way of thinking is that those type of criminals should never be set free back into society to begin with. Since they are, they definitely should never have the option of legally obtaining a firearm. I thought I put that in my post, but I didn’t.
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    94,187
    Road Dawg you must have overlooked where I said murderers, rapists, etc. My way of thinking is that those type of criminals should never be set free back into society to begin with. Since they are, they definitely should never have the option of legally obtaining a firearm. I thought I put that in my post, but I didn’t.

    :thumbsup:
    My comment was directed at the “paid their debt to society” portion. I don’t believe that “time out” (jail/prison) is a paid debt. No criminal has ever paid society back for anything by being put into time out.

    The jail time is the punishment for the offense.

    Restitution to all victims would be a debt paid.
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    :thumbsup:
    My comment was directed at the “paid their debt to society” portion. I don’t believe that “time out” (jail/prison) is a paid debt. No criminal has ever paid society back for anything by being put into time out.

    The jail time is the punishment for the offense.

    Restitution to all victims would be a debt paid.

    There are plenty of victimless crimes that will get one put on the permanent prohibited person list.

    I used to feel that no felon should ever get their voting or firearms rights back, but as the State moves to make more and more relatively minor infractions either felonies or disqualifying misdemeanors, I'm starting to change my tune.

    We all realize that the object of the game is to turn as many otherwise law abiding citizens into prohibited persons as possible. Should someone who purchases a 30 round magazine be barred for life from voting or shooting. If that is the only thing they've ever done wrong, I would lean that they had paid their debt after serving their sentence and should have their rights restored.

    Where there are in fact victims, I would agree with your assessment RD. Penalty... then restitution... then we can talk about rights... maybe.
     

    JPG

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 5, 2012
    6,996
    Calvert County
    I've taken family members from England to ranges here and the only ID anyone has asked for is mine. Family members are usually drooling over all the guns they see.
     

    spoon059

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 1, 2018
    5,340
    #1 signing into a gun range isn't a crime, even if you are prohibited. A signature on a form won't establish probable cause of a crime.

    #2 even if you signed a form, that doesn't prove that you actually fired a weapon. You could have simply gone with a friend, signed the form to go to the firing line and never manipulated a gun. Still don't have probable cause.

    #3 let's imagine some cop pulls the records, runs everyone, finds a prohibited person... Now they have to pull video, actually see the person handle a weapon, confirm their identity through an outside source and then charge.

    Is it POSSIBLE...? Maybe, but I'd love to work for that department, if they have enough time to go on fishing expeditions like that they must pay really well and have a ton of openings. I'm sure that if it ever actually happened, it's more likely that a cop was there at the range off duty and saw someone they knew was prohibited and got a warrant for them. Even then, still highly unlikely.

    To answer the original question though, no, a prohibited person is prohibited.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
     

    spoon059

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 1, 2018
    5,340
    Hmmmmmmm. So how can a range rent you a machine gun and supressor without paying the $200 transfer tax. Times 2 even.



    Renting at a range is not possession, as long as it stays under the owners (FFL) control in the building.



    As a rule, ranges dont do background checks before they rent you a pistol.

    You pay a tax to OWN an automatic or silencer, not to use one. Completely different argument.

    And yes, possessing a gun means to have possession... meaning that you were in control of it. You don't need to own it to possess it, you simply need to possess it to possess it.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
     

    1time

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    2,258
    Baltimore, Md
    #1 signing into a gun range isn't a crime, even if you are prohibited. A signature on a form won't establish probable cause of a crime.

    #2 even if you signed a form, that doesn't prove that you actually fired a weapon. You could have simply gone with a friend, signed the form to go to the firing line and never manipulated a gun. Still don't have probable cause.

    #3 let's imagine some cop pulls the records, runs everyone, finds a prohibited person... Now they have to pull video, actually see the person handle a weapon, confirm their identity through an outside source and then charge.

    Is it POSSIBLE...? Maybe, but I'd love to work for that department, if they have enough time to go on fishing expeditions like that they must pay really well and have a ton of openings. I'm sure that if it ever actually happened, it's more likely that a cop was there at the range off duty and saw someone they knew was prohibited and got a warrant for them. Even then, still highly unlikely.

    To answer the original question though, no, a prohibited person is prohibited.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk



    They are taking lateral applications.
     

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