Muzzle Crowning

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  • inkd

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 4, 2009
    7,512
    Ridge
    Thanks, I appreciate that.

    So if I am doing an in-depth conversion, requiring a lot of gunsmithing work, should I start a post, with progress pictures on this thread, or is there a more appropriate place?
    It isn't about the gun, It is about what and how I am doing it.

    Thanks.

    I'd figure you could start a thread here or in the Rifle section. I don't believe there is any right or wrong place.

    I would start a new thread though, not add pics to this one, if you want people to follow it and comment on it.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,278
    HoCo
    OP,
    It seems "take it to a gunsmith" is a typical response to many inquiries.
    It may not be a bad response, but often the OP is trying to see if doing something is worth the time. I've done some things I could have taken to a gunsmith but decided to learn to do it myself for the sake of doing it even though it would have been cheaper to take it to a gunsmith for the one off I did. I like DIY and buying tools and learning things. Maybe you are the same. I did a crown on a crapped out Muzzle once. It took it from Zero to Hero. I spent less than $100 and I sit with the tool in my basement after using it once. I did it and learned I should have done it a tad different next time but it worked. I cold blue'd the muzzle when done (already had the stuff as I built a muzzleloader from a Kit previously). My gun was worth about $125 as is the way it was shooting so I did not risk much. For me it was more about wanting to try something for the experience.
    I say try the brass screw idea first, test your groups before and after and learn if it does something then maybe decide if you want to re-crown.
    I have talked to people who used tapered reamers and they said that worked for them (but I did not want to do that in my case).
    Good luck and don't let the nay sayers get you down. Amongst the unwanted responses, you often get the good info here. When wanting to do something myself, I personally find it more respectful if the poster in response gives some warning to what might go wrong vs a simple "don't do it" response. Something more constructive is "if you do it, don't let xxxx happen or yyy will be the result".

    Good info is Priceless and thanks to those who contribute.
     

    tlino

    I learn better hands on w
    Dec 28, 2014
    100
    Frederick
    I'd figure you could start a thread here or in the Rifle section. I don't believe there is any right or wrong place.

    I would start a new thread though, not add pics to this one, if you want people to follow it and comment on it.

    Good idea.
    Thanks.
     

    tlino

    I learn better hands on w
    Dec 28, 2014
    100
    Frederick
    OP,
    It seems "take it to a gunsmith" is a typical response to many inquiries.
    It may not be a bad response, but often the OP is trying to see if doing something is worth the time. I've done some things I could have taken to a gunsmith but decided to learn to do it myself for the sake of doing it even though it would have been cheaper to take it to a gunsmith for the one off I did. I like DIY and buying tools and learning things. Maybe you are the same. I did a crown on a crapped out Muzzle once. It took it from Zero to Hero. I spent less than $100 and I sit with the tool in my basement after using it once. I did it and learned I should have done it a tad different next time but it worked. I cold blue'd the muzzle when done (already had the stuff as I built a muzzleloader from a Kit previously). My gun was worth about $125 as is the way it was shooting so I did not risk much. For me it was more about wanting to try something for the experience.
    I say try the brass screw idea first, test your groups before and after and learn if it does something then maybe decide if you want to re-crown.
    I have talked to people who used tapered reamers and they said that worked for them (but I did not want to do that in my case).
    Good luck and don't let the nay sayers get you down. Amongst the unwanted responses, you often get the good info here. When wanting to do something myself, I personally find it more respectful if the poster in response gives some warning to what might go wrong vs a simple "don't do it" response. Something more constructive is "if you do it, don't let xxxx happen or yyy will be the result".

    Good info is Priceless and thanks to those who contribute.

    Thank you very much for your response. You understand me completely.
    I have some ideas I am going to try. I have 600mm of barrel to learn with. If I screw up, I buy an new barrel!
     

    rico903

    Ultimate Member
    May 2, 2011
    8,802
    Isn't this the Gunsmithing part of the forum? I'm not sure of your meaning. Is this for gunsmiths, or people who are doing their own gunsmithing? Again, I'm a newbie. Don't want to step on any toes.


    Looks like you're in the right place to me, don't know what people are bitching about. From what I see you started a thread in the gun smithing forum. Of course I'm no forum expert:innocent0
     

    tlino

    I learn better hands on w
    Dec 28, 2014
    100
    Frederick
    Pictures of the crowning

    I did the crowning.

    After cutting.



    First crown tool and emery paste.



    I thought the first tool diameter was too small, so I made a tool with a larger diameter which was closer to 11 degrees. I used the emory paste with it, then I used the dremmel tool and jewlers rouge to polish the new crown.



    Great results (I think). I still need to dress the flat edge.



    About two hours work.I had fun doing and learning.
     

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    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,590
    Glen Burnie
    OP,
    It seems "take it to a gunsmith" is a typical response to many inquiries.
    I see a similar thing on a trumpet player's forum I belong to. With virtually any question about playing technique, people automatically throw, "go get a teacher" out there, which IMO isn't always a great solution, and especially not if you don't have anything fundamentally wrong with what you are doing, but I digress.

    Regarding this crowning project, I think the OP did a pretty decent job - I don't know if the crown is offset, or if it's just the lighting making it look that way. I suspect the latter. The bottom line is that succeed or fail, the OP learned a lot more about this than if he'd simply dumped it off at a gunsmith. Any idiot can do that. It's a different kind of person who wants to dig in and see if they can do it themselves, and for people who are like that, most of the time, they achieve a measure of success, and learn in the process.
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    You were able to cut to a depth of about 3/32" or more using just buffing compound and a screw head?

    You have a much wider flat on the top of the muzzle than you do on the bottom of the muzzle. Meaning that radius/recess is out of square or on an angle with the bore. I would use a chamfering tool with a pilot suitable for an 8mm Mauser to at least square up the end of the bore/rifling.

    Overall it looks pretty good.

    cutter 004.JPG
     

    tlino

    I learn better hands on w
    Dec 28, 2014
    100
    Frederick
    The crown is visibly offset. Is the bore also that offset or just the crown?

    That is the lighting. I'll have to get my wife to take a better picture with a good camera when she gets home. I took it with my cell phone. I took about 40 pictures to get a good one that was in focus.
     

    tlino

    I learn better hands on w
    Dec 28, 2014
    100
    Frederick
    I see a similar thing on a trumpet player's forum I belong to. With virtually any question about playing technique, people automatically throw, "go get a teacher" out there, which IMO isn't always a great solution, and especially not if you don't have anything fundamentally wrong with what you are doing, but I digress.

    Regarding this crowning project, I think the OP did a pretty decent job - I don't know if the crown is offset, or if it's just the lighting making it look that way. I suspect the latter. The bottom line is that succeed or fail, the OP learned a lot more about this than if he'd simply dumped it off at a gunsmith. Any idiot can do that. It's a different kind of person who wants to dig in and see if they can do it themselves, and for people who are like that, most of the time, they achieve a measure of success, and learn in the process.


    Thank you.
    I learned a lot.
    I may re-do it. It is far from perfect, and I have an idea for a better tool.
     

    tlino

    I learn better hands on w
    Dec 28, 2014
    100
    Frederick
    You were able to cut to a depth of about 3/32" or more using just buffing compound and a screw head?

    You have a much wider flat on the top of the muzzle than you do on the bottom of the muzzle. Meaning that radius/recess is out of square or on an angle with the bore. I would use a chamfering tool with a pilot suitable for an 8mm Mauser to at least square up the end of the bore/rifling.

    Overall it looks pretty good.

    Actually, I first re-cut a drill bit to about 11 degrees. The barrel is too long for my lathe, so I used the drill bit like a reamer. It was real rough, too.

    I am going to re-make that tool with a bore guide in it.
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    Actually, I first re-cut a drill bit to about 11 degrees. The barrel is too long for my lathe, so I used the drill bit like a reamer. It was real rough, too.

    I am going to re-make that tool with a bore guide in it.

    That makes more sense.

    I bet that thing was hopping all over the place.

    I know you are hell bent on making all of the tooling yourself, but that tool I posted above isn't expensive and it will finish that bore off nicely.

    And with the angle, you can use a live center on your lathe if need be.
     

    tlino

    I learn better hands on w
    Dec 28, 2014
    100
    Frederick
    That makes more sense.

    I bet that thing was hopping all over the place.

    I know you are hell bent on making all of the tooling yourself, but that tool I posted above isn't expensive and it will finish that bore off nicely.

    And with the angle, you can use a live center on your lathe if need be.

    Where did you get it?
    I would have to pull the barrel to get it on my lathe. If I do that I will re-barrel. But I still only want a 16.5" barrell for my 8mm pig carbine.
     

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