What is your breaking point for a Revolution?

cessnapilot said:

While in an ideal world we might like the idea of putting our foot down and saying enough is enough, a lot of us have a lot to loose by doing so. I have a very nice career as a airline pilot and can't afford to jeopardize my career my having a firearm that the government has deemed illegal no matter how much I may disagree with the laws. For the people that choose to defy the law and engage in civil disobedience I applaud you, but you also need people with jobs to help pay the expenses incurred by fighting restrictive laws.

Click to expand...

cessnapilot said:

While in an ideal world we might like the idea of putting our foot down and saying enough is enough, a lot of us have a lot to loose by doing so. I have a very nice career as a airline pilot and can't afford to jeopardize my career my having a firearm that the government has deemed illegal no matter how much I may disagree with the laws. For the people that choose to defy the law and engage in civil disobedience I applaud you, but you also need people with jobs to help pay the expenses incurred by fighting restrictive laws.

Click to expand...

cessnapilot said:

While in an ideal world we might like the idea of putting our foot down and saying enough is enough, a lot of us have a lot to loose by doing so. I have a very nice career as a airline pilot and can't afford to jeopardize my career my having a firearm that the government has deemed illegal no matter how much I may disagree with the laws. For the people that choose to defy the law and engage in civil disobedience I applaud you, but you also need people with jobs to help pay the expenses incurred by fighting restrictive laws.

Click to expand...

cessnapilot said:

While in an ideal world we might like the idea of putting our foot down and saying enough is enough, a lot of us have a lot to loose by doing so. I have a very nice career as a airline pilot and can't afford to jeopardize my career my having a firearm that the government has deemed illegal no matter how much I may disagree with the laws. For the people that choose to defy the law and engage in civil disobedience I applaud you, but you also need people with jobs to help pay the expenses incurred by fighting restrictive laws.

Click to expand...

Muleskinner said:

There is a growing left wing 2A movement in the country. (i'm not talking about Antifa) It's small but unabashedly vocal about their intent to counter what they call "right wing hatred"..In their minds Republicans and libertarians are the ones provoking civil upheaval..What they don't understand (or will never admit) is that those 2 groups are part of the reason they can arm themselves..it's just more liberal mental illness..and it's scary

Click to expand...

BeoBill said:

By being vocal and drawing attention by bragging and threatening, they target themselves to LE. Stupid move, but hey, FEELZ GUD!

I think the more dangerous Leftist/Marxist option is the "sleepers" who are biding their time. Think "Beltway Sniper" of the past, but multiplied 10 or 20 times in each major city at the same time. Calls for confiscation will surely follow in the resulting bovine panic.

Plan based on that scenario.

Click to expand...

Bob A said:

I'm not going to call out cessnapilot for his reasoning. Better men than I am have done the same thing. I remember a MSP official who was gagged in front of the GA back in 2013, who subsequently had a change of heart. Socio-economic pressure is no small thing. Families are definitely Hostages To Fortune.

Old farts who are near their sell-by date are dangerous since they have little to lose.

Click to expand...

“Underlying this cold civil war is the fact that increasingly America is torn between two Constitutions,” Kesler outlined five possible ways to resolve the cold civil war.

One is to change the subject. Another is to change minds through persuasion, until one side wins. A third is a “reinvigorated federalism” that allows blue states and red states to address issues differently and coexist with minimal interference from the U.S. government. The others are more undesirable: secession or war.

“It’s possible we could agree to disagree in separate countries,” Kesler said. “Although that would be extremely difficult because succession, as we know from our history, leads to the fifth and final possibility—war.”

Click to expand...

He described one Constitution, the original 1787 document as amended, as steeped in natural rights and limited government. This one, he said, is also the “conservatives’ Constitution.”

The other one is the “living Constitution,” or what he called “the liberals’ Constitution.”

“The living Constitution implies that the other Constitution is a dead Constitution, or at least is on life support, and that it must be transformed, it must be infused with new meaning, new ends and to some degree new means and institutions, to be kept alive in order to be a vital part of our politics,” Kesler said.

President Woodrow Wilson was one of the first to use the term “living Constitution” to suggest it changes with the times, Kesler said.

Click to expand...

Jim12 said:

It's rumored that Mueller gave Comey immunity, and that partly explains why Comey is so talkative and confident.

If Mueller did, why?

Is he givivng Brennan and others in the conspiracy immunity, too? Rosenstein?

Comey gave Hillary's lawyer and aide immunity, too. From what? In return for what?

The conspiracy of immunity givers and recipients are having quite a circle jerk while undermining the Constitution and committing sedition, aren't they?

There already is a revolution underway, actually a bloodless coup in slo mo, but almost nobody except Devin Nunes, Matt Gaetz, and a couple other patriotic but powerless Republican congressmen are even trying to stop it.

Ryan is sleeping with the enemy and Gowdy has thrown in the towel.

Click to expand...

Muleskinner said:

But that's not how it will happen. First the government will mine the logs of every FFL in the country and every state government firearms database to see who has what. Next you will be sent a letter telling you you have X number of days to turn your firearms in to a designated collection point. If you fail to do so your paycheck will be withheld by the IRS and maybe a lien on your home. If that doesn't convince you friendly agents from a federal law enforcement agencies will meet you at work, or shopping, or church and put the shiny bracelets on you (and maybe any other adults living in your home since they would also have access to your guns) and off to jail you will go until you come clean with the whereabouts of your firearms. They are not going to accept stories of losing them in a boating accident or other fantasies...They aren't going to kick in your door...there are no where near enough of them...but they can certainly "convince" you to give them up...

At the point this starts is the breaking point for me (and thousands of other Oath Keepers and 3%ers)..

Click to expand...

It is willful blindness for progressives and NeverTrump Republicans to overlook what has happened only to damn what has not happened. The dangers in America are not from transparent right-wing authoritarians (who are easily spotted in their clumsiness), but from mellifluous self-styled constitutionalists, whose facades and professions of legality mask their rank efforts to use any anti-constitutional means necessary to achieve their supposedly noble egalitarian ends.

Click to expand...

EL1227 said:

Victor Davis Hanson: The True Threat to America’s Civil Liberties Is It’s Law-Breaking Intelligence Apparatus.

Click to expand...

rascal said:

Hanson is an extremely lucid writer and thinker firmly grounded in relevant history.

I first saw him speak an event in Washington a very long time ago on the ancient hoplite citizen army. I was interested in the history of the tactics, but he went well beyond it, with a fascinating and convincing discussion about how such citizen forces, and everything from the way they fought and the way they ended fighting aided in creating culture and social cohesion amicable to Democracy.

I see he has a column up at Reason.com, I strongly suggest everyone read his work, including his seminal books, which are approachable even for persons not initially familiar with the subjects he is covering.

I tend to agree with him that it will be a whimper. the US press, media and long term communications culture are no longer just co-opted by governance (See NY Times writer Mark leibovich's "This Town" book on DC ") but fully a core element of the swamp.

We used to have a system of governance experts centrally accumulating and centralizing power -- it was called feudalism and empires. Yet as we it again raising its head, any resistance or critique is defined as "nationalism" "nationalist populism" and reactionary, as the increasing undemocratic center accumulates more and more power and sheds accountability to the populaces.

And even the question of an armed populace, a proven for thousands of years including today, deterrent to government tendencies toward tyrannical actions tendencies that will always be present in any governance, including democratic ones, is defined by the media as "seditious."

The point and it really is missed in this thread, is the simple act of promoting an armed law abiding citizenry IS what reduces the risks of confrontation and violence in politics.

Click to expand...

rascal said:

.... I tend to agree with him that it will be a whimper....

Click to expand...

eruby said:

So Queen Amadilla was wrong?

Very interesting read.

Click to expand...

Mr H said:

Another vote for 'whimper'...

Between the compliant leftists, the complicit media, and the complacent sheeple, the collapse--should it come--will be unnoticed by the people we see out front on a daily basis.

It falls to the rest of us to make the noise... but most won't.

Click to expand...