the National Reciprocity Act is Dead!

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  • Doobie

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 23, 2013
    1,777
    Earth
    Why are we "waiting" for the federal government to allow CCW? The United states Constitution already states that the federal government can't infringe. The fight is at the state level, currently, the MD constitution has no written right to bear arms. This is what needs to be changed. The process to amend the State Constitution needs to be studied and manipulated to suit we gun owners. Marches and demonstrations are good for morale. I have been doing them for years, but they change nothing. Change has to happen at the vocal level, look around the nation and see how groups that were in the vast minority, on certain issues, eventually won the day. We need to emulate that and exploit their tactics. Gun owners are a much larger group, in MD, than any modern niche group (LGBT as an example). This is not a knock at he LGBT group but I use them as an example as what is possible, in a short period of time, on polarizing issues. They don't merely demonstrate, they get pressure on hostile politicians, create wedge issues, and use media to sway support. Is there any possibility we could formulate such a plan?
    Because Maryland is a lost cause and the only way that all law abiding citizens in Maryland will ever be allowed to carry without having to fight through Maryland's labyrinth of bs is if Uncle Sam passes national reciprocity. Even then, expect Maryland politicians to fight it tooth and nail and drag it out for years in court. I have no optimism whatsoever left for the 2A and concealed carry in Maryland for regular, law abiding citizens. Irreversible damage has already been done with FSA2013, the handgun roster, and the bs 7 day wait period. My prayers/hopes/wishes are that I can sell my house and get out of Maryland. Its a damn shame though because my wife and I live less than 10 minutes from our jobs.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    The 4 CA settled their view of our law in Woolard. Our only path is a SCOTUS ruling because of a circuit split or National Reciprocity.

    The fight in MD is over until one of these things happen
     

    Ponch

    Member
    Feb 7, 2018
    80
    Odenton
    Reading a lot about the bill passing/not passing. Has anyone dove into it deeper? If the bill magically passes it doesn’t really help Maryland residents. You still have to get a CCW from your home state.

    I see a lot of cute comments about how hard it is to get a lic in Maryland (I’m starting the process) has anyone been denied, then appealed and still been denied?
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Um, no. The House version would allow carry in MD on any permit, including non resident permits held by MD residents.

    Whether it actually would happen would depend on the final version hammered out in a House Senate conference committee.

    But the Senate must pass it before it even gets that far, and that is a long shot because of the 60 vote requirement.
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,534
    The 4 CA settled their view of our law in Woolard. Our only path is a SCOTUS ruling because of a circuit split or National Reciprocity.

    The fight in MD is over until one of these things happen

    IL and DC sure didn't get their right via the legislatures there. I can't fathom Maryland, MA, NJ being any different. Great to whip up the minority 2A people in these states, but it's still the minority.

    When looking at the map progression of Shall Issue or better, what explanations are there for the contiguous small piece from MD to MA that remain resistant?
     

    CrazySanMan

    2013'er
    Mar 4, 2013
    11,390
    Colorful Colorado
    IL and DC sure didn't get their right via the legislatures there. I can't fathom Maryland, MA, NJ being any different. Great to whip up the minority 2A people in these states, but it's still the minority.

    When looking at the map progression of Shall Issue or better, what explanations are there for the contiguous small piece from MD to MA that remain resistant?

    Answer:

    Liberalism

    The Liberty Free Zone.
     

    hammer67

    Active Member
    Aug 21, 2016
    230
    Ellicott City
    , and use media to sway support. Is there any possibility we could formulate such a plan?

    media support for gun rights, LOL! Don't think that is going to happen. When was the last time you saw a positive story about guns on TV, like a gun owner protecting their life with their firearm?? Heck, when the Texas shooting happened and the guy with the AR next door came and stopped it and chased the guy, and Joe Biden said that that guy should not have been able to own that AR, I didn't hear the media defending gun rights! If you can't hear it then, when a hero saved lives, you aren't going to hear it!
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,534
    media support for gun rights, LOL! Don't think that is going to happen. When was the last time you saw a positive story about guns on TV, like a gun owner protecting their life with their firearm?? Heck, when the Texas shooting happened and the guy with the AR next door came and stopped it and chased the guy, and Joe Biden said that that guy should not have been able to own that AR, I didn't hear the media defending gun rights! If you can't hear it then, when a hero saved lives, you aren't going to hear it!

    Neighbor and I were on opposite sides politically and would typically converse on Government economic and foreign policy. Very smart (and wealthy) guy and could defend his points very well, not the typical "feelings" go to. We'd drink together etc. One day he brings up firearms, I recall it was after a notable incident. Firearms had never come up in years. He starts on the AR-15. I noted to him, I have two. He was visibly shaken. His first words were something to the effect, " omg, all I needed to know, there are AR-15's right across the street from me! He then saved himself and said, well I guess maybe you having them doesn't worry me too much, LOL

    I then told him, well you'd be really concerned if you walked in to a basement a block away from us, it's full of automatic rifles. Then had to explain yes, you can buy those.
     

    Greenshield

    Member
    Nov 16, 2009
    31
    Easton, MD
    I understand the skepticism, and I ask that y'all understand that I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. We have tried tactic after tactic, election after election to get our rights back; the only thing that has changed is my age and appearance. When a plan isn't working, a change must be made. In the past I have seen state constitutional amendments put on a ballot proposition for the electorate. Is such a thing possible for an amendment to the right to keep and bear in the state of MD? Throw ideas out there, don't be skeptical ahead of time. We are conditioned to beg for our rights back, it is understandable that the cynic in we all is dominant for subjects like this; but look at what progressives have accomplished with their tactics. If they can change a whole country's mindset in less than 10 years, so can we. FYI, the media weren't always on their side either.
     
    Last edited:

    hammer67

    Active Member
    Aug 21, 2016
    230
    Ellicott City
    Difference is back in 2008, the democrat party, and both Obama and Clinton were against same sex marriage, as were Republicans. Then I think the Democrat party thought by supporting it, they could pull the LGBTQ?????? (for whatever initials they start to add) to their side. I really think a lot of that was just for votes, like immigration. And the media simply followed cause they will support whatever the Dems support. With gun rights, the lines are already drawn with R's for and D's against. Get the D's to support gun rights and the media will follow. But if the D's supported, we wouldn't need the media!
     
    Feb 28, 2013
    28,953
    Does anyone know where the 60 votes to pass the senate comes from? I've been told by numerous "teachers" that a simple majority is all that's needed in the senate for a bill to pass.
    Problem is, we got us a limp dick named Sing Along with Mitch McConnell who ain’t got enuff balls to invoke the nuclear option like the Dems already did when they was in charge. :mad54:
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Originally Posted by Robert2888
    Does anyone know where the 60 votes to pass the senate comes from? I've been told by numerous "teachers" that a simple majority is all that's needed in the senate for a bill to pass.
    It takes a 3/5 majority to cut off debate (called cloture) and proceed to a majority vote.

    3/5 x 100=60
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,534
    Back in olden times weren't votes plied with booze and women? The Dems are pretty susceptible to that I'd think.
     

    Abacab

    Member
    Sep 10, 2009
    2,644
    MD
    Republicans could try to attach it to a must pass bill but that's incredibly unlikely.

    The state level issue is obviously numbers. There are more of them than us. We may be able to score small victories one day when Republicans have enough votes in the legislature to mount a filibuster and/or sustain a veto. Absent that they have zero leverage. Democrats can pass whatever they want. The only thing they can't really screw with is the budget when there's a Republican governor.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    The Dems removed the 60 vote rule for District Court judicial appointments only.

    Then Mitch removed it for SCOTUS appointments.

    legislation still requires 60 votes to cut off debate.
     

    Fox123

    Ultimate Member
    May 21, 2012
    3,926
    Rosedale, MD
    Dems were willing to shut down the gov over DACA. There is no longer such thing as “must pass” they would rather keep the gov closed than vote for anything that has this tied to it. So attaching to spending bills is out.

    They need to be willing to lose something the Dems really want and pass them both together.

    Problem is the republicans don’t really want reciprocity, and they darn sure are not willing to lose something else to get it passed.
     

    ironpony

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    7,191
    Davidsonville
    I’m starting to think the influx of Russian money to the dems is a strategic disarmament besides the fact it leans towards dividing a countries people.
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    In the past I have seen state constitutional amendments put on a ballot proposition for the electorate.

    The gun control groups don't have paying members but they have massively more money and have evolved to the point where over 90% of that money is raised on charitable deductions.

    they would LOVE such an attempt in a place like Maryland because it would help them GROW. They would raise 25 million in charitably deductible money and spend it on "education campaigns" . Right now there re about 275 professional full time employees of various gun control lobby groups --they be able to put 500 on the payrolls with their work from 9am to 4:45 pm on their twinned 501(c)3 and 4:45 to 5:00 pm on their non deductible 49% political activity allowed C4.
     

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