Curio and Relic FAQ!! Read me first!!!

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  • Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    I just printed out the forms, was that a faux pas ? Can I mail with money order, or does it have to be online with credit card ?
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member
    Curio and Relic FAQ.

    Can I sell my C&R guns to a non-collector?
    Yes, and all state and local laws must be followed. You can only sell a C&R firearm to a non licensee in your home state. You can sell them to FFL's in any state where it is legal to do so. This includes other C&R holders.

    This may have already been addressed in this long thread, but, if not, the first post should be updated to correct the error.

    An 03 FFL may sell a C&R long gun to an unlicensed person who resides in a different state, provided that (i) the sale occurs at the license's licensed premises and (ii) the sale complies with the laws of both states.
     

    KevinK

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 24, 2008
    4,973
    Carroll County, Md
    This may have already been addressed in this long thread, but, if not, the first post should be updated to correct the error.

    An 03 FFL may sell a C&R long gun to an unlicensed person who resides in a different state, provided that (i) the sale occurs at the license's licensed premises and (ii) the sale complies with the laws of both states.
    Do you have a cite for this? I think this is a no-go.


    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-curio-or-relic-firearms-exempt-provisions-gca

    Are curio or relic firearms exempt from the provisions of the GCA?

    No. Curios or relics are still firearms subject to the provisions of the GCA; however, curio or relic firearms may be transferred in interstate commerce to licensed collectors or other licensees.

    [18. U.S.C. 921(a)(3) and (13) and 923(b); 27 CFR 478.11]
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member



    The fact that C or R firearms are subject to the GCA of 1968 is not determinative. The regulations and BATFE are clear. An 03 FFL may sell a C or R long gun to an out of state resident provided that the sale (1) occurs at the licensed premises and (2) complies with the laws of both states.


    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
     

    eruby

    Confederate Jew
    MDS Supporter
    The fact that C or R firearms are subject to the GCA of 1968 is not determinative. The regulations and BATFE are clear. An 03 FFL may sell a C or R long gun to an out of state resident provided that the sale (1) occurs at the licensed premises and (2) complies with the laws of both states.


    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
    Maybe it's BGOS, but trying to equate an 03 FFL to an 01 FFL is risky, IMO.

    Buy I do see whence your argument arose.
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member
    Maybe it's BGOS, but trying to equate an 03 FFL to an 01 FFL is risky, IMO.



    Buy I do see whence your argument arose.



    There are no arguments. This is cut and dry. I'm not taking a "position." There's no equating 03 and 01.

    It is law and fact that an 03 FFL may dispose of a C or R firearm to a resident of another state if such disposition occurs at the licensed premises. People want to make this hard. It is not.
     

    eruby

    Confederate Jew
    MDS Supporter
    There are no arguments. This is cut and dry. I'm not taking a "position." There's no equating 03 and 01.

    It is law and fact that an 03 FFL may dispose of a C or R firearm to a resident of another state if such disposition occurs at the licensed premises. People want to make this hard. It is not.
    Except depending on the frequency of "disposition" with the 03 FFL, they (ATF) may deem you to be 'selling' and not just 'collecting - with the occasional sale'.

    Not gainsaying you, just want to avoid Leavenworth. :D

    And if one thinks the ATF / Feds won't crack foxy, ask David Koresh or Vickie Weaver how they feel. :innocent0

    And I am just babbling as I no longer even have an 03, though I may or may not have at one time (boating accident .......) :lol2:
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member
    Except depending on the frequency of "disposition" with the 03 FFL, they (ATF) may deem you to be 'selling' and not just 'collecting - with the occasional sale'.



    Not gainsaying you, just want to avoid Leavenworth. :D



    And if one thinks the ATF / Feds won't crack foxy, ask David Koresh or Vickie Weaver how they feel. :innocent0



    And I am just babbling as I no longer even have an 03, though I may or may not have at one time (boating accident .......) :lol2:



    How did this turn into a discussion about engaging in the business of a dealer? No, BATFE's guidance is clear - one will be "engaged in the business" only if he or she regularly sells firearms with the principal objective of making a livelihood and profit. Frequency is irrelevant. Purpose is relevant.

    One of the worst pieces of information I regularly see in forums and Facebook is that an 03 FFL cannot directly sell a C or R firearm out of the collection but must use an 01 FFL.

    503af55f45550be4af28c92426838131.png
     

    KevinK

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 24, 2008
    4,973
    Carroll County, Md
    In the very image you posted it talks about same state of residence for nonlicensees, and obtaining, not selling being the point of the 03 FFL.

    I wish you nothing but good luck and success in selling / transferring your C & R firearms at your license residence to out-of-state transferees. :thumbsup:


    c & r.jpg
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member
    In the very image you posted it talks about same state of residence for nonlicensees, and obtaining, not selling being the point of the 03 FFL.



    I wish you nothing but good luck and success in selling / transferring your C & R firearms at your license residence to out-of-state transferees. :thumbsup:





    View attachment 210612



    Read the regs and guidance. I have led you to water. I cannot make you drink. I have been at this a long time and I also happen to know a little about the law
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member


    Internet warrior-lawyers crack me up. Don't post misinformation and bad advice that makes it harder for honest, law-abiding people to enjoy the hobby and lose sleep at night. It's kind of like when someone posts that a bumpfire will send a guy to the clink ...

    Ask your friends who have been in the collecting game a long time whether they have a hard time understanding this BATFE FAQ.

    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Sorry guys, Abulg1972 is absolutely correct:

    From the BATFE:
    [18 U.S.C. 922 (x), 27 CFR 478.103]
    Q: Can a licensed collector sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State?
    Yes. A licensed collector is specifically authorized to sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State so long as 1) The purchaser meets with the licensee in person at the licensee’s premises to accomplish the transfer, sale, and delivery of the rifle or shotgun; and 2) The sale, delivery, and receipt of the rifle or shotgun fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States.
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,711
    They seem to be forever tinkering with their website. Even links within their current website don't work.

    try:
    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...rearms-license-atf-form-531012531016/download

    apparently all FFL types use this form now (?), including C&R according to this page (see Form 7/7CR):
    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firear...target_id[186]=186&field_topic_tid=All&page=1


    Read instructions carefully, unless things have changed recently FFL-03 doesn't need to supply photo or fingerprints.

    That's the only one I could find anyway.
     

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