10/22 Point of Impact Change Suppressor

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  • BigDaddy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 7, 2014
    2,235
    I have a Spectre that I bought primarily for use with a pistol. I did have my bull barrel threaded by a popular IP. The barrel was an aftermarket that I bought ages ago and I don't remember the brand, but the accuracy pre/post threading is perfectly acceptable.

    Finally took the 10/22 to the range and nothing hit the paper. Bottom line, with the suppressor and CCI mini mags I am hitting at least 4 feet low. No sign of a baffle strike.

    Do I need a crush washer, or am I experiencing barrel sag?
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Does removing the suppressor "fix" the PoI? I would be surprised if it did. There is no theoretical physics framework for how a suppressor could cause a 4ft PoI drop without a baffle strike at typical rimfire distances.

    If removing does not fix your PoI issue (which is what I suspect):
    1. Check the barrel's V-block to make sure it's in the receiver correctly. A downwards-canted barrel could easily produce the effect you're seeing.
    2. Check your optic's mount, if you're using one, to make sure it's not loose.
    3. Check your optic, and maybe try shooting with irons. In theory, your optic might have also failed, but this seems less likely.

    I personally lean towards (1) being the culprit, but let us know.
     

    Bountied

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    6,888
    Pasadena
    I had this issue with my Spectre II. The can was really dirty. After I cleaned it shots went back to normal. I saw no baffle strikes but I could not hit a 2' round log at 30ft, all my shots were going straight into the ground way low.

    Try cleaning it first, mine had about 500 rds through it before the issue occurred. I also noticed I get better groups without the can on and using a brake instead.
     

    BigDaddy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 7, 2014
    2,235
    Does removing the suppressor "fix" the PoI? I would be surprised if it did. There is no theoretical physics framework for how a suppressor could cause a 4ft PoI drop without a baffle strike at typical rimfire distances.

    If removing does not fix your PoI issue (which is what I suspect):
    1. Check the barrel's V-block to make sure it's in the receiver correctly. A downwards-canted barrel could easily produce the effect you're seeing.
    <snip (scope problems)
    I personally lean towards (1) being the culprit, but let us know.

    Removing the suppressor does fix the problem and it was reproducible, meaning I could shoot roughly a 1.5" group at 50yds without the suppressor and see dirt fly from somewhere down low with the suppressor installed. Take it off and hit the bullseye again

    I would think that would make a scope function/mounting problem less likely. I have a chance to shoot ground hogs this week, so I don't want to monkey with the V-block. I could not detect any movement in the barrel.

    I can't find the thread, but I ran across this device before I posted
    http://www.gunsmithertools.com/gunsmither-1022-elevation/
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Yes, if removing the suppressor restores PoI, your suppressor _or your barrel's threading_ is the problem. Might want to inquire with your gunsmith how they did the threading, and whether they did it on a proper lathe or whatever.
     

    RetiredArmyGuy

    Active Member
    Jan 16, 2018
    171
    Pasadena, MD
    Take it apart and clean it. Inspect it for any baffle strikes. Even the slightest rub will cause the POI shift you are talking about. I would also try some different ammo and see if there is any difference. I would also set up and run a keyhole test to see if the bullets are tumbling. As stated already do not use a crush washer. If the suppressor is not locking up with the barrel use a peel washer to bridge the gap.
     

    BigDaddy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 7, 2014
    2,235
    I'm back, sometime life gets in the way of fun things.

    I cleaned the suppressor, it was only mildly dirty. I inspected the baffles and they look fine. I took the stock off. The V-block was not loose. I removed that and I could not budge the barrel. It's been there for 25+ years and I did not put anti-sieze on the barrel shank.

    I did not state the whole story in my first post, but I could not hit the paper. Took the suppressor off and I was 2" low. Adjusted the scope so I was dead on at 50 yds and put the suppressor back on. Nothing on paper. Aimed at the dirt back stop and caught a glimpse of dirt flying at the bottom of the scope. Aimed higher on the backstop, and it was hitting feet below where I was aiming. Took the suppressor off, back in the X, put it back on, still way low, took it off, back to the 10 ring.

    The ammo was CCI HP, I will try different ammo.
     

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,242
    Mid-Merlind
    Ammo is not going to fix this. If your 10/22 will zero and shoot CCI MiniMags fine w/o the suppressor, then the suppressor is the problem, either the barrel thread or the suppressor itself.

    A baffle strike with a .22 rimfire may not be especially obvious, whereas strikes with centerfire rifles tend to leave obvious damage like jacket shavings and grooves across the face of the baffles.

    It may be an issue with thread fit (Class 1 A/B, Class 2 A/B, etc..). Is there any wobble when it's about 3/4 of the way threaded on?

    Try a range rod to check alignment from the muzzle end or pull the barrel and sight through from the chamber end, looking for any overlap or even a slight change in reveal as you see the edge of the suppressor through the bore. The edges should all be even and concentric.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I did have my bull barrel threaded by a popular IP.

    The V-block was not loose. I removed that and I could not budge the barrel. It's been there for 25+ years and I did not put anti-sieze on the barrel shank.
    I can almost guarantee you are having baffle strikes. Maybe they're minor or not obvious, but if the IP didn't pull your barrel to thread it on a proper lathe, it's probably not as concentric as it needs to be. You can get away with that with a FH or a muzzle brake, but you're asking for trouble with a suppressor due to length.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,813
    I just opened my .22 can after trying it for the first time on a friend's Ruger t/d. We had accuracy problems as well. When I pulled the monocore after some difficulty, it seemed to have a lot of debris inside. I didn't see any overt evidence of baffle or endcap strikes, but I wonder if some "shaving" might have occurred. I don't have a test bed of my own for this can(working on it though) yet, but as soon as I do, I will gauge the barrel. The can is a Radical Arms cheapo.$200+ the stamp.
     

    RetiredArmyGuy

    Active Member
    Jan 16, 2018
    171
    Pasadena, MD
    The Spectre 22 mounts on conventional 1/2 X 28 (Class 3A) threads .400" in length. The thread spacer is to be used on threads .600" – .650". If threads are longer than .400" but shorter than .600", a 1/2 X 28 – 1/2 X 28 (corrected from 1/2x25 error) adapter will be needed. As stated already an alignment check would be helpful to ensure the threads are concentric to the bore. These are stainless steel baffles so if the bullet is rubbing the baffle it may be hard to tell as there may be little to no damage happening. Is the suppressor locking up to the shoulder on the threads? If the alignment is okay it is still possible for it to be an ammunition issue. I have seen some strange things happen with different types of ammunition and suppressors.
     
    Last edited:

    BigDaddy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 7, 2014
    2,235
    The Spectre 22 mounts on conventional 1/2 X 28 (Class 3A) threads .400" in length. The thread spacer is to be used on threads .600" – .650". If threads are longer than .400" but shorter than .600", a 1/2 X 28 – 1/2 X 25 adapter will be needed.

    I thought the thread spacer was a thread protector! The suppressor works fine with my S&W MP 22 compact.

    Without going to the gun safe, I'm pretty sure the threads are longer than 0.4" So what exactly does the thread spacer do? The spectre seemed to tighten perfectly fine without it.

    I tried Federal target, CCI HP and Win HP today. I fired each with and without the suppressor. Without, they were all a 1/2" group at 25 yrd. I discovered that with the sun, if I took my head away from the scope I could see the rounds go down range. I never saw that before.

    At first the Fed seemed to be low and right 2'x2' The other brands were only low at 6 o'clock. I tried the Fed again it was now shooting at 6 o'clock without the right ward deviation. The suppressor seemed equally tight to me.

    I do not have an alignment rod. I did manage to put a couple rounds on paper and they didn't look key holed to me.

    The holes in the baffles are not round, but notched. There is probably a term for that, but does the orientation of the notches matter?
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hlqke1rL8Ok/VELr9UCKSoI/AAAAAAAAAXI/3rfinDBWFfo/s1600/P1030048.JPG

    I will measure the thread length and get back to you. It would be nice if the thread spacer would be the simple solution.
     

    RetiredArmyGuy

    Active Member
    Jan 16, 2018
    171
    Pasadena, MD
    The spectre backcap has a ring located forward of the barrel threads in between the threads and the blast baffle. If the rifle has threads that are longer than .400” they will contact this ring prior to bottoming out on the shoulder of the barrel threads on the rifle causing the suppressor to lock up unevenly on the ring and not the shoulder which can bring the suppressor out of alignment with the barrel and cause the issues you are describing. Normal rimfire thread length in 1/2x28 is .400” while centerfire is .600”. If your threads are say .450” in length you may not be able to see the separation between the suppressor and the barrel shoulder and it will seem to lock up because the threads on the barrel are contacting the ring on the inside of the suppressor. Best thing to do as you said is to measure the length of the threads and see if you can use the spacer or there are other spacers that are thinner and less expensive than buying the adapter they want you to use.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    I just opened my .22 can after trying it for the first time on a friend's Ruger t/d. We had accuracy problems as well. When I pulled the monocore after some difficulty, it seemed to have a lot of debris inside. I didn't see any overt evidence of baffle or endcap strikes, but I wonder if some "shaving" might have occurred. I don't have a test bed of my own for this can(working on it though) yet, but as soon as I do, I will gauge the barrel. The can is a Radical Arms cheapo.$200+ the stamp.

    If you want to use the TD again, even to gauge it, let me know.

    I shot the TD at TMGN and It was hitting where I was aiming at 25 yards, with no issues. :shrug:
     

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