Chinese broom handle 9mm c&r or not?

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  • Mr.Smalls

    Active Member
    Mar 24, 2017
    175
    Queen Anne's
    This is a little behind the times, but I've been busy with work. Here's the story:
    I went to the Chantilly gun looking to use my c&r for the first time and there was a vendor there who had a Chinese broom handle in 9mm. So I look it over and decide to buy it. I talk price with the vender and agree. I take out my license and book and he stops me and say I can't use my license. It's not c&r because it was imported in the 90s. But made at least 50 years ago. Long story short, the deal fell apart from there. Is this true? Does the ATF go by import date? If so, why? Or was the vender talking out of his ass? I would great appreciate your opinion and info on this matter.
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    Imported old guns are as sold as C&R all the time. More than likely, the dealer doesn't know exactly when it was made and is playing it safe. Plus the dealer is not obligated to accept a C&R license. Their business. Their rules.
     

    Mr.Smalls

    Active Member
    Mar 24, 2017
    175
    Queen Anne's
    Imported old guns are as sold as C&R all the time. More than likely, the dealer doesn't know exactly when it was made and is playing it safe. Plus the dealer is not obligated to accept a C&R license. Their business. Their rules.

    I have no problem if they don't accept c&r licenses. As you said thier business, their rules. But why lie to me about it and say he was denying the sale due to ATF regs.the dealer told me that the ATF went by the import date And that was what he went by. I do not think he would lie to me over something like that when I was willing to lay down that kind of money for a sale.
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    There's no proof he's lying. Maybe there's a restriction on them. Maybe he misunderstands if/how they qualify. No legal risk in him playing it safe. Looked at another way, he was prodding you towards a normal sale (by way of transfer). He might have given you a better deal because of the transfer.
     

    K-43

    West of Morning Side
    Oct 20, 2010
    1,881
    PG
    If it is a Mauser made Broomhandle, they stopped production in 1937 and it is C&R. If it is a Chinese copy made prior to 1945 it is listed in ATF listings. There were several Chinese arsenals that made copies prior to the end of WWII.
    You can check the date of Mauser C96 here:
    http://oldguns.net/sn_php/c96lookup.php

    And here is the ATF list:
    https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/p-5300-11-firearms-curios-or-relics-listpdf-0/download

    Search it and you'll find:
    p25 "Mauser, semiautomatic pistols mfd prior to 1946, any caliber.

    p34 "Chinese mfd copies of the Mauser model 1896, semiautomatic pistol, produced prior to 1945. any cal, accompanied by original Chinese mfd detachable wooden holster/shoulder stocks."
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,337
    Catonsville
    Navy Arms imported Chinese C96 reproductions in the early 90s, Model TU-711. These are modern production, not C&R, and are chambered for 9mm only. Entered the US around the time all the original C96s and Astra M900s flooded the country. Don't know how many were built and you don't see them all that often. All that I've seen are Schnellfleur copies with removable magazines. There might have been other configurations, not up to speed on these.
    Here's one up for sale on Armslist to give you an example.
     

    Jimbob2.0

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 20, 2008
    16,600
    Navy Arms imported Chinese C96 reproductions in the early 90s, Model TU-711. These are modern production, not C&R, and are chambered for 9mm only. Entered the US around the time all the original C96s and Astra M900s flooded the country. Don't know how many were built and you don't see them all that often. All that I've seen are Schnellfleur copies with removable magazines. There might have been other configurations, not up to speed on these.
    Here's one up for sale on Armslist to give you an example.

    Forgot about those. The vendor's explanation doesn't sound right but those wouldn't be C&R. If it was one of those and you thought you were paying for vintage you may have saved yourself some $$$s. I don't know enough about Broomhandles, need to get educated. Have looked at a couple supposed "red 9s" Prussian contract guns when I see one too reasonable I get suspicious.
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,337
    Catonsville
    Forgot about those. The vendor's explanation doesn't sound right but those wouldn't be C&R. If it was one of those and you thought you were paying for vintage you may have saved yourself some $$$s. I don't know enough about Broomhandles, need to get educated. Have looked at a couple supposed "red 9s" Prussian contract guns when I see one too reasonable I get suspicious.

    I poked about the web, curious to see what they're selling for and what little I could find had prices range from $800 to $1k. Have no clue as to quality which is important as their only value, at this time, are as shooters. Perhaps in a few more decades they'll enter the collector realm.
     

    Mr.Smalls

    Active Member
    Mar 24, 2017
    175
    Queen Anne's
    Thank you everyone for your help. I think the C&R whisperer (mawkie) hit the nail on the head. That one selling on Armslist look exactly like the one I was looking at. Same two mags and in styrofoam packing.
     

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