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-   -   Final opinions on 410 for home defense (https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=10398)

arbud October 12th, 2008 04:04 PM

Final opinions on 410 for home defense
 
Whta is the final word guys yea or nay. Will it end a situation quickly. Thanks,Bud

Jimbob2.0 October 12th, 2008 04:16 PM

Only if you have absolutely no other option, .410 has some advantages including a narrow spread pattern, but .410 buckshot loads dont have much in the way of pellets (think about it 00 buck in 12 gauge only has 8 or 9) but IMHO its 12 gauge or bust. Power, ammo flexibility.

BlackBart October 12th, 2008 04:35 PM

Nay, 20, 16 or 12 when it positively, absolutely has to save YOUR life.

joppaj October 12th, 2008 08:09 PM

Nay. Unless you have no other options, it's better than a big pointy stick, but only until you get into stabbing distance.

BeltBuckle October 12th, 2008 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joppaj (Post 147254)
Nay. Unless you have no other options, it's better than a big pointy stick, but only until you get into stabbing distance.

:thumbsup:+1. might be of some value as a club, but just about useless out of clubbing range. almost better off throwing a boot.

novus collectus October 12th, 2008 09:17 PM

I vote yay!

A 410 shotgun with a slug is more powerful than most pistol rounds and some people do better with long guns. Also, not everyone can handle the recoil of a 12 gage and maybe even a 20 gage. So for some people the .410 will be ideal and for everyone else, well, if 600 plus foot pounds muzzle energy slug isn't enough to stop your neighborhood attacker, then you might want to move out of that neighborhood.

JasonMD85 October 12th, 2008 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by novus collectus (Post 147293)
I vote yay!

A 410 shotgun with a slug is more powerful than most pistol rounds and some people do better with long guns. Also, not everyone can handle the recoil of a 12 gage and maybe even a 20 gage. So for some people the .410 will be ideal and for everyone else, well, if 600 plus foot pounds muzzle energy slug isn't enough to stop your neighborhood attacker, then you might want to move out of that neighborhood.

I know nothing about the effectiveness of a .410 round against a human. I did see a video once, I think it was the Valhalla video, where they demonstrated the most common HD rounds and their effects on common household barriers. Dry wall etc. The guy in the video, and if this is Valhalla than I think I may actually take his word, eventually got to the .410. His words were something along the lines of a .410 with good rounds being plenty for any would-be attacker in a CQB situation (such as a hallway in your house) but the .410 would only go through 2-3 pieces of dry wall with lethal force. I believe they even used a ballistic gelatin torso to prove the effects of the .410 on a human, but I am not sure. Have to watch it again. The other most common rounds, even the HD specific bullets, were at least twice as many layers with lethal force.

Just something to think about. "All humans are allergic to bullets" and "The human body was never designed to leak" come to mind. Is a .410 as effective as a 12ga? Absolutely not, and I don't think anyone is going to argue that. But with the right loads, and a good CM shot or better, I don't think I would ever assume it to be ineffective either. The old saying "No one will volunteer to be shot with a .22" comes to mind as well. There are better options, sure, but if its what you got, and what you are comfortable with, or have no other choice (multiple people living in one house, with multiple rooms in one area) I don't think I would feel unprepared either.

Just my worthless .02 :)

alucard0822 October 12th, 2008 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by novus collectus (Post 147293)
I vote yay!

A 410 shotgun with a slug is more powerful than most pistol rounds and some people do better with long guns. Also, not everyone can handle the recoil of a 12 gage and maybe even a 20 gage. So for some people the .410 will be ideal and for everyone else, well, if 600 plus foot pounds muzzle energy slug isn't enough to stop your neighborhood attacker, then you might want to move out of that neighborhood.

Even a modest centerfire long-gun trumps all but the largest handguns, and would be effective against most any intruder if properly loaded, in the case of the .410, the longest 000 buck shell it will safely chamber. A 3 inch shell has 5 .35cal pellets, and the gel test below shows 16" penetration, which is sufficient for defense. The problem with slugs is that they are very light, fast, and most are all lead (1/5oz=86gr, 1500-1700fps), they tend to fragment instead of penetrate, and jacketed or copper modern slug designs are hard to come by, but would probably be plenty effective, roughly 7.62X25 ballistics. More or less, 410 would be plenty sufficient for HD "on paper", and for some who could not handle something bigger, it might just be the way to go.

410 000 buck gel-test

novus collectus October 12th, 2008 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alucard0822 (Post 147338)
Even a modest centerfire long-gun trumps all but the largest handguns, and would be effective against most any intruder if properly loaded, in the case of the .410, the longest 000 buck shell it will safely chamber. A 3 inch shell has 5 .35cal pellets, and the gel test below shows 16" penetration, which is sufficient for defense. The problem with slugs is that they are very light, fast, and most are all lead (1/5oz=86gr, 1500-1700fps), they tend to fragment instead of penetrate, and jacketed or copper modern slug designs are hard to come by, but would probably be plenty effective, roughly 7.62X25 ballistics. More or less, 410 would be plenty sufficient for HD "on paper", and for some who could not handle something bigger, it might just be the way to go.

410 000 buck gel-test

If a .410 slug out of a shotgun can kill a deer with a body shot, I have no hesitations about it's effects on a man.
With the buckshot, I might worry about spread and missing the target alltogether, but if they are far enough away for that to happen, then you can probably get off a second shot in time.

alucard0822 October 13th, 2008 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by novus collectus (Post 147345)
If a .410 slug out of a shotgun can kill a deer with a body shot, I have no hesitations about it's effects on a man.
With the buckshot, I might worry about spread and missing the target alltogether, but if they are far enough away for that to happen, then you can probably get off a second shot in time.

If they are far enough away for the shot to spread that far you probably are not in "imminent mortal danger" either. The biggest hinderance I think is the low capacity, and slow cycle rate, not from any lack of power or penetraton.


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