ATF Coming After Firearms with Stabilizing Braces

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  • jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024

    Well the only issue I have with what he said is most AR/AK and maybe guns like the Vector will probably exceed the 4 point rule on the Form 4999, the initial 4999 asks about Weight, LOP, the overall adjustability of the brace and its "straps" including what the strap is made of of like velcro or elastic, etc. I think the amnesty will be hardest on those with super short pistols that cannot be converted to minimum OAL easily without some investment and then proving to the atf it is no longer in that "braced pistol" configuration.
     

    Growler215

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 30, 2020
    2,170
    SOMD
    I've got an 8.5" 9x39mm AR pistol that can't be readily converted to an SBR configuration in MD. Assuming the point system stays the same in the Final Rule, will probably get a pistol buffer tube and SB Mini for that one. Similar to this but with a red dot.
    SB-MINI-Retouch-web.jpg
     

    BurkeM

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    1,514
    Baltimore
    Fascinating discussion to date.

    What next? Will the ATF also ban or restrict "pistol grips" on existing rifles??

    None of this BATFE regulation nonsense will survive a hearing based on Bruen (Text, history and tradition).
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    Fascinating discussion to date.

    What next? Will the ATF also ban or restrict "pistol grips" on existing rifles??

    None of this BATFE regulation nonsense will survive a hearing based on Bruen (Text, history and tradition).
    My guess is, by the time we arrive there, they'll be coming for our guns, so it won't much matter.
     

    TRON 2.0

    Free light cycle rides
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 13, 2011
    164
    PG county
    I've got an 8.5" 9x39mm AR pistol that can't be readily converted to an SBR configuration in MD. Assuming the point system stays the same in the Final Rule, will probably get a pistol buffer tube and SB Mini for that one. Similar to this but with a red dot. View attachment 380037
    What are the SBR rules for MD? I am debating changing my pistol, but I must make sure I can before I start the process.
     

    BurkeM

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    1,514
    Baltimore
    What are the SBR rules for MD? I am debating changing my pistol, but I must make sure I can before I start the process.
    I. Definitions

    Maryland Law, Criminal Law Article ("CR").§ 4-201(f), defines "short-barreled rifle" as a rifle that

    1. One or more barrels with one or both measuring less than 16 inches long; OR

    2. Has an overall length of less than 26 inches AND was manufactured from a rifle either by alteration or modification.



    2016 Maryland Code Public Safety
    Title 5 - Firearms Subtitle 2 - Rifles and Shotguns
    § 5-203. Possession of short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun​

    Universal Citation: MD Pub Safety Code § 5-203 (2016)
    (a) Prohibited. -- A person may not possess a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun unless:

    (1) the person, while on official business is:

    (i) a member of the law enforcement personnel of the federal government, the State, or a political subdivision of the State;

    (ii) a member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard while on duty or traveling to or from duty;

    (iii) a member of the law enforcement personnel of another state or a political subdivision of another state, while temporarily in this State;

    (iv) a warden or correctional officer of a correctional facility in the State; or

    (v) a sheriff or a temporary or full-time deputy sheriff; or

    (2) the short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle has been registered with the federal government in accordance with federal law.

    (b) Burden of proof. -- In a prosecution under this section, the defendant has the burden of proving the lawful registration of the short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.

    (c) Penalty. -- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 5 years or a fine not exceeding $ 5,000 or both.
     

    Attachments

    • LD-FRS-14-002 - REVISED - Short Barreled Shotguns and Short Barreled Rifles.pdf
      31.6 KB · Views: 421

    BurkeM

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    1,514
    Baltimore
    What are the SBR rules for MD? I am debating changing my pistol, but I must make sure I can before I start the process.
    VI. Approval for Sale or Manufacture by Handgun Roster Board

    Additionally, because PS 5-401(c) uses the definition of "handgun" from CR 4-201, a shortbarreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun must be approved by the Handgun Roster Board before it may be manufactured for distribution or sale or sold or offered for sale in Maryland.

    ---------------
    Thus, your handgun remains a handgun in Maryland, even if the Feds suddenly declare it to be an SBR.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    VI. Approval for Sale or Manufacture by Handgun Roster Board

    Additionally, because PS 5-401(c) uses the definition of "handgun" from CR 4-201, a shortbarreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun must be approved by the Handgun Roster Board before it may be manufactured for distribution or sale or sold or offered for sale in Maryland.

    ---------------
    Thus, your handgun remains a handgun in Maryland, even if the Feds suddenly declare it to be an SBR.
    Form 1 is exempt from that.
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    VI. Approval for Sale or Manufacture by Handgun Roster Board

    Additionally, because PS 5-401(c) uses the definition of "handgun" from CR 4-201, a shortbarreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun must be approved by the Handgun Roster Board before it may be manufactured for distribution or sale or sold or offered for sale in Maryland.

    ---------------
    Thus, your handgun remains a handgun in Maryland, even if the Feds suddenly declare it to be an SBR.
    No
    Public Safety § 5-401
    Handgun
    (c)(1) “Handgun” means a pistol, a revolver, or any other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.
    (2) “Handgun” does not include a shotgun, a rifle, a short-barreled rifle, a short-barreled shotgun, or an antique firearm.
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    What are the SBR rules for MD? I am debating changing my pistol, but I must make sure I can before I start the process.
    There are a number of rules, but the one that trips up most people is the "copycat weapon"

    Criminal Law § 4-301
    (h)(1) “Copycat weapon” means:
    (i) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has any two of the following:
    1. a folding stock;
    2. a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
    3. a flash suppressor;
    (ii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds;
    (iii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 29 inches;
    (iv) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds;
    (v) a semiautomatic shotgun that has a folding stock; or
    (vi) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
    (2) “Copycat weapon” does not include an assault long gun or an assault pistol.

    Currently "copycat weapons" are prohibited in MD. That may change in the future due to Bianchi v Frosh, which is challenging the ban.
     

    spoon059

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 1, 2018
    5,340
    So my confusion intensifies...

    That MSP guidance says it is a SBR if the barrel is less than 16 inches long OR has an overall length LESS than 26 inches blah blah blah. I don't see anything in that guidance about a minimal length for SBR.

    Theoretically, if I had a 4.5" barrel .22 caliber AR pistol and I was willing to comply with the ATF suggestions to SBR it for free, I should be able to met the requirements for SBR, correct? Barrel is less than 16" and overall length is less than 26".
     

    BigWilly

    oK, nOw WhAt ?
    Mar 23, 2011
    485
    Dundalk
    Fascinating discussion to date.

    What next? Will the ATF also ban or restrict "pistol grips" on existing rifles??

    None of this BATFE regulation nonsense will survive a hearing based on Bruen (Text, history and tradition).
    Seeing this reminded me of an article in maybe Recoil magazine where the writer was reviewing different LPVO on an AR15 and because he was in Cali, it can't have a pistol grip, his rifle had a Hammerhead grip. Absolutely insane that politicians keep adding restrictions and companies keep coming up with work arounds. Same thing with the pistol brace. Tyrannical overlords deem "X" not legal and some outside the box thinking company comes out with "Y" that does pretty much the same thing.

    fe4356f86f6b772b95fc30a7aa0c938e.jpg


    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
     

    BigWilly

    oK, nOw WhAt ?
    Mar 23, 2011
    485
    Dundalk
    So my confusion intensifies...

    That MSP guidance says it is a SBR if the barrel is less than 16 inches long OR has an overall length LESS than 26 inches blah blah blah. I don't see anything in that guidance about a minimal length for SBR.

    Theoretically, if I had a 4.5" barrel .22 caliber AR pistol and I was willing to comply with the ATF suggestions to SBR it for free, I should be able to met the requirements for SBR, correct? Barrel is less than 16" and overall length is less than 26".
    I thought there was no clarification on what happens if your braced pistol becomes an SBR and is shorter then 29" OAL? My impression from previous discussions was that if you had a stamp for a SBR in MD, it had to be longer then 29". Am I incorrect?

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    So my confusion intensifies...

    That MSP guidance says it is a SBR if the barrel is less than 16 inches long OR has an overall length LESS than 26 inches blah blah blah. I don't see anything in that guidance about a minimal length for SBR.

    Theoretically, if I had a 4.5" barrel .22 caliber AR pistol and I was willing to comply with the ATF suggestions to SBR it for free, I should be able to met the requirements for SBR, correct? Barrel is less than 16" and overall length is less than 26".
    That's because people are throwing up everything, including junk that no longer applies.
    Center fire semi autos must have an overall length 29"+. That is with the stock fully extended. Any detachable muzzle device must be removed before measuring.
    Single fire/bolt actions do not adhere to the 29" rule.
    Rim fire guns do not adhere to the 29" OAL rule either. They can be as short as you want.
    Since we're not discussing shotguns, no comment.
    The 26" rule on pistols is any pistol over 26" AOL, not a pistol because it is considered non consealable and can actually have VFG on it for that reason. I believe AOWs require a special tax stamp for the cost of $5.
     
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