ATF Coming After Firearms with Stabilizing Braces

outrider58 · Sep 8, 2022

BurkeM said:
Hmmm. What if you attached a "sighting rod" along the barrel? Say, 8 inches of 1/4 inch dowel?

View attachment 379451

C'mon now...

[Kev308] · Sep 8, 2022

I haven't paid attention to any of this nonsense. Can we still use a buffer tube pad and call it a pistol? I'm not doing any forms or taxes if I don't have to.

Boats · Sep 8, 2022

BurkeM said:
Local LEO's don't have the authority to charge anyone in Federal court, can't enforce federal "rules."

I am aware. But can't they arrest, hold and transfer to federal?

BurkeM · Sep 8, 2022

Boats said:
I am aware. But can't they arrest, hold and transfer to federal?

No.

Local and State police may only arrest on State or local statutes.

If the MGA passed a law banning “braces,” Maryland police could enforce that (and watch local prosecutors Nolle Pros every arrest.)

The same way Maryland prosecutors drop most other firearms related crimes.

The same way Maryland police arrest hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants everywhere in the state.

smokey · Sep 8, 2022

There is zero possible way anyone can argue that braced pistols AREN'T in common use. Tens of millions of them exist and have been OK'd to be sold as braced pistols straight from manufacturers. I'm going to give the decisions by the atf to suddenly change their minds about braced pistols the same deference they give to our second amendment.

jkeys · Sep 8, 2022

If the ATF ruling hits I am about to make one of these to swap between guns to get a bunch of free tax stamps.

babalou · Sep 8, 2022

smokey0118 said:
View attachment 379505

There is zero possible way anyone can argue that braced pistols AREN'T in common use. Tens of millions of them exist and have been OK'd to be sold as braced pistols straight from manufacturers. I'm going to give the decisions by the atf to suddenly change their minds about braced pistols the same deference they give to our second amendment.

all the money the AFT will bring in. smh

jrumann59 · Sep 9, 2022

jkeys said:
If the ATF ruling hits I am about to make one of these to swap between guns to get a bunch of free tax stamps.

That would likely be a legal braced pistol, no tax stamp, especially if you use the checklist they may roll out.

Boats · Sep 9, 2022

BurkeM said:
No.

Local and State police may only arrest on State or local statutes.

If the MGA passed a law banning “braces,” Maryland police could enforce that (and watch local prosecutors Nolle Pros every arrest.)

The same way Maryland prosecutors drop most other firearms related crimes.

The same way Maryland police arrest hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants everywhere in the state.

Learn something new every day, I reckon

HaveBlue · Sep 9, 2022

jrumann59 said:
That would likely be a legal braced pistol, no tax stamp, especially if you use the checklist they may roll out.

not if he duct taped a 9-18x50 scope on it and hang some lead filled trailer hitch testicles from the bottom.

lazarus · Sep 9, 2022

BurkeM said:
No.

Local and State police may only arrest on State or local statutes.

If the MGA passed a law banning “braces,” Maryland police could enforce that (and watch local prosecutors Nolle Pros every arrest.)

The same way Maryland prosecutors drop most other firearms related crimes.

The same way Maryland police arrest hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants everywhere in the state.

However, they can notify federal authorities. Plus, they can arrest on federal warrants.

BurkeM · Sep 9, 2022

BurkeM said:
No.

Local and State police may only arrest on State or local statutes.

If the MGA passed a law banning “braces,” Maryland police could enforce that (and watch local prosecutors Nolle Pros every arrest.)

The same way Maryland prosecutors drop most other firearms related crimes.

lazarus said:
However, they can notify federal authorities. Plus, they can arrest on federal warrants.

Notify, yes. Arrest on a federal warrant? No. (Semantics, but relevant)

If a local LEO were to become aware that a person is "wanted" based on a NCIC inquiry, they can 'detain' a fugitive pending the arrival of a federal agent or officer to take custody. State/local LEO's lack the authority to walk into a federal courthouse and present a fugitive before a federal magistrate or judge.

It's the same if someone has an open warrant from one of the other 49 States or Commonwealths: a Maryland cop can't arrest you on a Massachusetts warrant and drive you to Boston for arraignment. (Her/his authority ends at the state or County line).

Local or state LEO can 'detain,' and deliver that fugitive to the local Sheriff's Office for detention pending formal Extradition proceedings - IF the Agency holding the warrant is willing to PAY for the detention and transportation costs to the jurisdiction having authority.

-----
Numerous 'liberal' jurisdictions (Baltimore, Montgomery, PG, etc) absolutely REFUSE to detain anyone on a Federal warrant. Baltimore City, for example routinely RELEASES individuals wanted by the Feds and refuses to hold folks for even 3 minutes, even if the Marshals are 10 minutes out. It's comical, really. Meanwhile, Alleghany or Frederick will happily bill the FED for holding costs, and even agree to transport a fugitive to the US Marshals - for a hefty FEE. (aka "bounty") (This is why Frederick Co Sheriff is under attack by Liberals in Fredneck Co.)

Being 'detained' for moments or 48 hours on a foreign warrant is never a pleasant experience, but it's not technically an arrest until the jurisdiction issuing the arrest warrant takes custody of the body.

lazarus · Sep 9, 2022

BurkeM said:
Notify, yes. Arrest on a federal warrant? No. (Semantics, but relevant)

If a local LEO were to become aware that a person is "wanted" based on a NCIC inquiry, they can 'detain' a fugitive pending the arrival of a federal agent or officer to take custody. State/local LEO's lack the authority to walk into a federal courthouse and present a fugitive before a federal magistrate or judge.

It's the same if someone has an open warrant from one of the other 49 States or Commonwealths: a Maryland cop can't arrest you on a Massachusetts warrant and drive you to Boston for arraignment. (Her/his authority ends at the state or County line).

Local or state LEO can 'detain,' and deliver that fugitive to the local Sheriff's Office for detention pending formal Extradition proceedings - IF the Agency holding the warrant is willing to PAY for the detention and transportation costs to the jurisdiction having authority.

-----
Numerous 'liberal' jurisdictions (Baltimore, Montgomery, PG, etc) absolutely REFUSE to detain anyone on a Federal warrant. Baltimore City, for example routinely RELEASES individuals wanted by the Feds and refuses to hold folks for even 3 minutes, even if the Marshals are 10 minutes out. It's comical, really. Meanwhile, Alleghany or Frederick will happily bill the FED for holding costs, and even agree to transport a fugitive to the US Marshals - for a hefty FEE. (aka "bounty") (This is why Frederick Co Sheriff is under attack by Liberals in Fredneck Co.)

Being 'detained' for moments or 48 hours on a foreign warrant is never a pleasant experience, but it's not technically an arrest until the jurisdiction issuing the arrest warrant takes custody of the body.

Excellent points. Though a bit academic to the arrestee if the jurisdiction is more than happy to detain you.

jcutonilli · Sep 10, 2022

BurkeM said:
Notify, yes. Arrest on a federal warrant? No. (Semantics, but relevant)

If a local LEO were to become aware that a person is "wanted" based on a NCIC inquiry, they can 'detain' a fugitive pending the arrival of a federal agent or officer to take custody. State/local LEO's lack the authority to walk into a federal courthouse and present a fugitive before a federal magistrate or judge.

It's the same if someone has an open warrant from one of the other 49 States or Commonwealths: a Maryland cop can't arrest you on a Massachusetts warrant and drive you to Boston for arraignment. (Her/his authority ends at the state or County line).

Local or state LEO can 'detain,' and deliver that fugitive to the local Sheriff's Office for detention pending formal Extradition proceedings - IF the Agency holding the warrant is willing to PAY for the detention and transportation costs to the jurisdiction having authority.

-----
Numerous 'liberal' jurisdictions (Baltimore, Montgomery, PG, etc) absolutely REFUSE to detain anyone on a Federal warrant. Baltimore City, for example routinely RELEASES individuals wanted by the Feds and refuses to hold folks for even 3 minutes, even if the Marshals are 10 minutes out. It's comical, really. Meanwhile, Alleghany or Frederick will happily bill the FED for holding costs, and even agree to transport a fugitive to the US Marshals - for a hefty FEE. (aka "bounty") (This is why Frederick Co Sheriff is under attack by Liberals in Fredneck Co.)

Being 'detained' for moments or 48 hours on a foreign warrant is never a pleasant experience, but it's not technically an arrest until the jurisdiction issuing the arrest warrant takes custody of the body.

Using the term arrest can be problematic because it can have different interpretations depending on who you ask. At its most basic level, arrest and detain really mean the same thing. It starts when you are no longer free to leave. I believe the concept you are trying to articulate is that you cannot be charged with a crime by an outside (the jurisdiction) law enforcement agency.

[Kev308] · Sep 10, 2022

If this is on your pistol is it good to go? is there any length requirements to consider?

BigWilly · Sep 10, 2022

[Kev308] said:
View attachment 379679 View attachment 379679
If this is on your pistol is it good to go? is there any length requirements to consider?

I believe it applies only to braces so you'd be GTG

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

TinCuda · Sep 10, 2022

smokey0118 said:
View attachment 379505

There is zero possible way anyone can argue that braced pistols AREN'T in common use. Tens of millions of them exist and have been OK'd to be sold as braced pistols straight from manufacturers. I'm going to give the decisions by the atf to suddenly change their minds about braced pistols the same deference they give to our second amendment.

Not only did JAIME CAETANO v. MASSACHUSETTS cite Heller for the right to carry a "stun gun" under common use, I believe the estimate thought to be owned was around 100,000, it also set the precedent that devices not in common use at the writing of the Second Amendment were also protected.
Justice Alito wrote: "if the fundamental right of self-defense does not protect Caetano, then the safety of all Americans is left to the mercy of state authorities who may be more concerned about disarming people than about keeping them safe".

If 100,000 stun guns were protected under common use, then certainly 20 to 40 million pistol braces would qualify for the same protection. Also, even though pistol braces are a fairly new invention, they still should have the same protection.

Combloc · Sep 10, 2022

smokey0118 said:
View attachment 379505

There is zero possible way anyone can argue that braced pistols AREN'T in common use. Tens of millions of them exist and have been OK'd to be sold as braced pistols straight from manufacturers. I'm going to give the decisions by the atf to suddenly change their minds about braced pistols the same deference they give to our second amendment.

Well said sir. I think that about sums it up for millions and millions of red blooded Americans.

Eastwind · Sep 10, 2022

BurkeM said:
Notify, yes. Arrest on a federal warrant? No. (Semantics, but relevant)

If a local LEO were to become aware that a person is "wanted" based on a NCIC inquiry, they can 'detain' a fugitive pending the arrival of a federal agent or officer to take custody. State/local LEO's lack the authority to walk into a federal courthouse and present a fugitive before a federal magistrate or judge.

It's the same if someone has an open warrant from one of the other 49 States or Commonwealths: a Maryland cop can't arrest you on a Massachusetts warrant and drive you to Boston for arraignment. (Her/his authority ends at the state or County line).

Local or state LEO can 'detain,' and deliver that fugitive to the local Sheriff's Office for detention pending formal Extradition proceedings - IF the Agency holding the warrant is willing to PAY for the detention and transportation costs to the jurisdiction having authority.

-----
Numerous 'liberal' jurisdictions (Baltimore, Montgomery, PG, etc) absolutely REFUSE to detain anyone on a Federal warrant. Baltimore City, for example routinely RELEASES individuals wanted by the Feds and refuses to hold folks for even 3 minutes, even if the Marshals are 10 minutes out. It's comical, really. Meanwhile, Alleghany or Frederick will happily bill the FED for holding costs, and even agree to transport a fugitive to the US Marshals - for a hefty FEE. (aka "bounty") (This is why Frederick Co Sheriff is under attack by Liberals in Fredneck Co.)

Being 'detained' for moments or 48 hours on a foreign warrant is never a pleasant experience, but it's not technically an arrest until the jurisdiction issuing the arrest warrant takes custody of the body.

Sure, they might not hold a gang banging drug dealer with a federal warrant, but an otherwise law-abiding, office-working, suburban gun owner? HA! Kiss your ass goodbye.

TinCuda · Sep 12, 2022

ATF Coming After Firearms with Stabilizing Braces

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