9X19 MM Concealed Carry Ammunition Choices

Bob A · Sep 3, 2022

Buffalo Bore has a preference for flat-nosed hard cast or wadcutter bullets (for the smaller calibers especially), and makes the case that they are more destructive of tissue than the more traditional round-nose bullets for these revolvers and smaller-caliber semi autos.

While avoiding the discussion that no one should be carrying anything less potent than a 9mm, it must be said that there are millions of guns in calibers from 32 through 9x18 Makarov, which might have some utility for personal defense, though their bullets lack the mass and velocity to offer expansion in tissue.

I'd be curious to learn whether their argument holds water in the real world.

Here's their argument regarding expansion vs hard-cast flat nosed bullets:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=60

Discussion of lead vs hard-cast:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=54

The site has a number of other interesting articles in the "Technical Articles" section:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=51

Biggfoot44 · Sep 3, 2022

Sticky said:
I have always subscribed to energy, heavier bullets carry more of. ( Momentum instead ) I'd rather put more foot lbs on you

So that would actually indicate a preference to 115 gr , particularly +P , and +P+ . Least ways if you act want ft lb of energy .

Now if you want maximum Momentum , that IS a theory , and pretty widespread .

Blaster229 · Sep 4, 2022

danimalw said:
124gr hst or Hydra shok.

Had a discussion with a person who said "just shoot them in the head".

I suggested taking a 20 ft piece of 1/2" PVC, adding an elbow and a 2 ft section of PVC and tying a balloon (grapefruit sized) to that to simulate a brain of an bad guy. And have guy who just wants to try head shot try to pop the balloon while it's being moved around.

I think a balloon would wobble much more than a head would, and a grapefruit is a wee small. That's why you close the distance, to make that shot. That being said, 99.9% of people can't/won't do that in order to do that.
It's really just a fantasy scenario that people have never tried and think it is possible having not done it before. They have hard enough time hitting center mass.

danimalw · Sep 4, 2022

Blaster229 said:
I think a balloon would wobble much more than a head would, and a grapefruit is a wee small. That's why you close the distance, to make that shot. That being said, 99.9% of people can't/won't do that in order to do that.
It's really just a fantasy scenario that people have never tried and think it is possible having not done it before. They have hard enough time hitting center mass.

Agreed on moving, but the point is that hitting a small target that's moving is a lot harder than many think. As for size, my understanding is the critical area of the brain is smaller than many think.

teratos · Sep 4, 2022

danimalw said:
Agreed on moving, but the point is that hitting a small target that's moving is a lot harder than many think. As for size, my understanding is the critical area of the brain is smaller than many think.

To make someone go insta-slack, you gotta hit the brain stem.

Biggfoot44 · Sep 4, 2022

Meanwhile vaguely on topic , the question is potentially two fold :

1. What is good 9mm defensive ammo generally ? Any of latest or next to latest gen defensive/ duty ammo will be more than plenty good enough , and the differences usually not enough to obsess over .

2. iF the gun is a subcompact , then control ( aka recoil )should also be considered .This is something everyone must work out for themselves , with their gun , in their hand (singular) .

Blaster229 · Sep 4, 2022

Biggfoot44 said:
Meanwhile vaguely on topic , the question is potentially two fold :

1. What is good 9mm defensive ammo generally ? Any of latest or next to latest gen defensive/ duty ammo will be more than plenty good enough , and the differences usually not enough to obsess over .

2. iF the gun is a subcompact , then control ( aka recoil )should also be considered .This is something everyone must work out for themselves , with their gun , in their hand (singular) .

What is your gun career handling experience?
Any actual gun carrying as a paid profession?

Johnny5k · Sep 4, 2022

danimalw said:
Agreed on moving, but the point is that hitting a small target that's moving is a lot harder than many think. As for size, my understanding is the critical area of the brain is smaller than many think.

Its not so much that the critical brain area is smaller than people think, it is that in many places the skull is much harder than people think. We've all heard stories of forehead shots where the bullet just followed the skull around the head and the bullet popped out or remained just under the skin. We've evolved to bang our foreheads on all types of things.

You really need to be aiming for the cranial ocular cavity. Below the brow ridge and above the upper jaw. Even on the sides and the back, this area will be thinner and very effective.

CanDoEZ · Sep 4, 2022

I carry 147 grn Black Talon to blow the lungs out

Johnny5k · Sep 4, 2022

CanDoEZ said:
I carry 147 grn Black Talon to blow the lungs out

Don't do that, those rounds are fetching really high prices as collectibles. I've seen a single round sell for 50 bucks, but more often 50-100 for a full box.

CanDoEZ · Sep 4, 2022

Johnny5k said:
Don't do that, those rounds are fetching really high prices as collectibles. I've seen a single round sell for 50 bucks, but more often 50-100 for a full box.

JK, I have the box sitting on my collectible ammo and powder display shelf.

Chase Houston · Sep 4, 2022

Johnny5k said:
Its not so much that the critical brain area is smaller than people think, it is that in many places the skull is much harder than people think. We've all heard stories of forehead shots where the bullet just followed the skull around the head and the bullet popped out or remained just under the skin. We've evolved to bang our foreheads on all types of things.

You really need to be aiming for the cranial ocular cavity. Below the brow ridge and above the upper jaw. Even on the sides and the back, this area will be thinner and very effective.

Yup. What he said.

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FN509Fan · Sep 4, 2022

As a reloader, my first thought was any hollow-point in a steel or aluminum case so you wouldn't care when you the cops abscond with your brass.

I picked IMI Ammunition 9mm Luger +P 124 Grain Black Dot Jacketed Hollow Point (at Midway.) They aren't so expensive you can't practice with a box or so or till you can handload a similar practice round.

The FBI reported that 9mm is as effective as 45 ACP, just avoid anything that will over penetrate and hit what you are shooting at. Easier said than done under stress.

Huckleberry · Sep 4, 2022

Blaster229 said:
What is your gun career handling experience?
Any actual gun carrying as a paid profession?

Paging Mr Dick Measuring to the MDS House Phone

Paging Mr. Dick Measuring to the nearest MDS House Phone, you’re assistance is needed in a MDS Thread Stat!

Johnny5k · Sep 4, 2022

Chase Houston said:
Yup. What he said.

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I've got some targets that were created by taking an average from thousands of actual x-rays and scans that show the cranial ocular as well as thoracic cavities. I'm gonna eventually get them scanned in so I can share.

Onwrd Farm · Sep 4, 2022

Picked up some Winchester Silver Tip 147 grain JHP. Shot a box at Haps the other day and seemed just as accurate as the 115 grain I usually shoot for practice. This thread is fascinating and the knowledge in here is crazy. Thanks everyone for freely giving it.

teratos · Sep 4, 2022

CanDoEZ said:
I carry 147 grn Black Talon to blow the lungs out

Chase Houston · Sep 4, 2022

Onwrd Farm said:
Picked up some Winchester Silver Tip 147 grain JHP. Shot a box at Haps the other day and seemed just as accurate as the 115 grain I usually shoot for practice. This thread is fascinating and the knowledge in here is crazy. Thanks everyone for freely giving it.

Good choice.

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woodline · Sep 4, 2022

There’s so much good defensive ammo out there that I just generally go with whatever does same POA/POI as training ammo with my CCW pistol and will expand reliably at the velocity the pistol launches pull from. So far federal HST, hornady critical defense, Speer gold dot, and Sig v crown all have been fine. Really don’t care as long as it’s reliable. Ammo selection is pretty far down on my list of concerns.

One thing to consider for those using PCCs or guns with long barrels: for some of these designer projectiles, too much velocity is just as bad as too little. That’s where FMJ or screwdriver bullets might be the better choice.

FrankZ · Sep 4, 2022

A few years ago I did some reading on this subject and HST seemed to be well regarded and I found some online so I bought a couple boxes of 124 +P JHP to give them a go. I liked the way I shot them so I order 1000 rounds of it for the shelf. I still have a lot, I don't shoot it lots, but every now and then I suppose you need to.

I don't think there is any 9x19 I wish to be shot with though, and I suppose most of it will do the job.

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