M4C stupidity

[Spot77]

My $800 Bushmaster HBAR does everything I want it to do.


And it's the same things that 75% of the people on gun forums will do with them: Shoot at targets from a bench at no more than 300 yards.


I think my opportunities for kicking in doors and engaging multiple tangos after tossing willy petes through the window has long past.

But I don't begrudge those that wish to have the biggest, baddest, meanest piece of equipment. My gun will do what I want it to do as well as their gun will do what they want it to do. I wouldn't buy a Ford Escort to run 1/4 mile races, but I'd gladly drive it to the grocery store. And it'll work just as well as my neighbor's Ferrari for that.

 

[Spot77]

Hmph....I think Smokey said the same thing....Guess I should read through the replies before adding one myself.

 

[Biggfoot44]

No such thing as Perfect (too many desireable qualities viewed seperately will conflict with each other)."Best" presupposes degree of continuity of configuration and desired qualities, but after reaching " more than reasonably sufficent" further distinction is increasing subjective and theoretical.

 

[trbon8r]

I don't have a problem with the so-called "AR chart" per se. It serves a purpose and lets people know what they are getting for their hard earned dollars. The chart is factual data and devoid of brand bias. I get that.

The problem is when you start doing an analysis and finding out where your allegedly outhouse-tier rifle is lacking. It doesn't take long before you realize that much of the shit on that chart doesn't matter even if you were in downtown Fallujah throwing hand grenades at Haji. For the things on the chart that do matter (carrier staking, bolt internals, castle nut staking) they can be upgraded on a Stag for less than the cost of a couple Andrew Jacksons, or for free with a little effort.

 

[smokey]

Hmph....I think Smokey said the same thing....Guess I should read through the replies before adding one myself.

must mean i said something right if i got you backin me up bossman

 

[Russ D]

I don't have a problem with the so-called "AR chart" per se. It serves a purpose and lets people know what they are getting for their hard earned dollars. The chart is factual data and devoid of brand bias. I get that.

The problem is when you start doing an analysis and finding out where your allegedly outhouse-tier rifle is lacking. It doesn't take long before you realize that much of the shit on that chart doesn't matter even if you were in downtown Fallujah throwing hand grenades at Haji. For the things on the chart that do matter (carrier staking, bolt internals, castle nut staking) they can be upgraded on a Stag for less than the cost of a couple Andrew Jacksons, or for free with a little effort.

Very true, but barrel steel matters also. Does it matter to everyone? Prolly not.

 

[trbon8r]

Russ I know some folks harp on the barrel steel thing, but for me it is a non-issue. I doubt the difference between 4140 and 4150 steel would matter even with a full auto, much less a semi-auto like most of us schlubs are relegated to.

 

[Russ D]

It matters with full auto. For semi not as much.

 

[Fideo]

Last I checked my account was still frozen for posting a thread in the wrong category. I posted in the General AR section rather than the General Discussion section all the way at the bottom.

My email to the admin was never answered.

 

[Mega]

It' not that I agree with them, but if Bushmaster stuff was GTG why did you swap out all of the parts in your gun?

Because I'm a tinkerer...
I like working on, and improving my stuff over time.

 

[DarthZed]

I agree that for the average person, a Bushie or Rock River would perform as well as the more expensive makers; but don't you think that they have a point on the differences? I was all set to buy a Rock River Operator (they were/are having a sale) until I saw the M4 Chart that someone compiled which lists the components/testing the various manufacturers use.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

After I studied that chart, I reconsidered, and now I'm leaning toward a BCM (after I get my Sig SBR ). I'll probably never notice the difference in performance, but I'm always willing to pay a little more money for better quality. Not that I think the other manufacturers are junk, but there do seem to be quality differences. At least according to the chart.

 

[DarthZed]

Oops, I see "The Chart" has already been referenced. Please ignore my AR-noob comments.

I too really should read all the replies before typing one. lol

 

[clandestine]

Perfect basic gun IMHO is:

Spikes Complete M4 Lower with Spikes Buffer
Spikes M16 BCG Hard Chrome or Nickel Boron Coating
BCM Flat Top 1/7" Chrome Lined 16" Mid Length Upper with YHM Spectre or Rifle Length FF L.W. Rail (No BCG)
Extractor Upgrade Donut
Lancer or PMags
Magpul MBUS SIght Set
Magpul AFG
Magpul BAD
PRI Gas Buster CHarging Handle
Magpul ACS Stock

Then theres lights and optics to mull over

 

[Markp]

After I studied that chart, I reconsidered, and now I'm leaning toward a BCM (after I get my Sig SBR ). I'll probably never notice the difference in performance, but I'm always willing to pay a little more money for better quality. Not that I think the other manufacturers are junk, but there do seem to be quality differences. At least according to the chart.

I think the chart is great, because it does get to show you that you are paying for certain features... Some of those features are important, some are easy to address, and others have little purpose for the average person but are critical to a large military organization.

We might pull a barrel and replace it or tweak something we aren't quite satisfied with, but a military grunt needs a weapon that works out of the box with no tweaking and no questions (hence the additional quality control.)

So I don't look down on those who have great out of the box weapons or those who take a chance on something that may or may not need some tweaking to be perfect. Anyway, the chart is a great way to decide what features you are willing to pay for and which ones you are not willing to pay for.

Mark

 

[04RWon]

They also claim Spikes gear is junk too. Some people there and barfcom are sad.

What do you mean when you say barfcom? I seen that a few times?

 

[clandestine]

What do you mean when you say barfcom? I seen that a few times?

arfifteendotcom

 

[04RWon]

Oooohh ok, thats bud.

I remember seeing this sort of thing on here. When I was talking about my M1S. Its ok though, ppl gave advice lik I asked them to.

Like others have said, some cheaper rifles will work for many of us. They are probably even more then enough then we would need in any given situation. Can you get better stuff? Yeah for sure. I've said it alot, my next rifle is going to mainly be BCM stuff, except for a DSA lower, until Mark at 2 A orders something else for that good of a price, the DSA fits the bill.

Would I love to have that double chrome or whatever Noveske barrel...&%#^ YEAH I WOULD!!!! lol

 

[smokey]

Perfect basic gun IMHO is:

Spikes Complete M4 Lower with Spikes Buffer
Spikes M16 BCG Hard Chrome or Nickel Boron Coating
BCM Flat Top 1/7" Chrome Lined 16" Mid Length Upper with YHM Spectre or Rifle Length FF L.W. Rail (No BCG)
Extractor Upgrade Donut
Lancer or PMags
Magpul MBUS SIght Set
Magpul AFG
Magpul BAD
PRI Gas Buster CHarging Handle
Magpul ACS Stock

Then theres lights and optics to mull over

question...why would you go with a spikes bcg instead of the bcm? the nickel boron coating answers the question by itself, but aside from coatings is anything else superior on the spikes? or is it just a cost-point issue?

 

[04RWon]

Perfect basic gun IMHO is:

Spikes Complete M4 Lower with Spikes Buffer
Spikes M16 BCG Hard Chrome or Nickel Boron Coating
BCM Flat Top 1/7" Chrome Lined 16" Mid Length Upper with YHM Spectre or Rifle Length FF L.W. Rail (No BCG)
Extractor Upgrade Donut
Lancer or PMags
Magpul MBUS SIght Set
Magpul AFG
Magpul BAD
PRI Gas Buster CHarging Handle
Magpul ACS Stock

Then theres lights and optics to mull over

Dont forget the "sex dildo attachment" mentioned in another thread. (we all know you have that)

I think the best rifle is the one that fits the individual needs. A fixed stock and 20in barrel fit my bill.

 

[clandestine]

question...why would you go with a spikes bcg instead of the bcm? the nickel boron coating answers the question by itself, but aside from coatings is anything else superior on the spikes? or is it just a cost-point issue?

Just the coatings. On a seperate note, recently the BCM's overall quality has dropped slightly while Spikes has increasingly gotten better. Noth are good, but the Nickle one clean up MUCH easier on supressed AR's