Open carry of non-firearm weapon in Baltimore City

[Ethan83]

Okay, I know this topic is something of a dead horse, but I'm curious about a unique aspect of it. As far as I understand, it's totally legal for me to carry a non-firearm weapon openly, as long as I don't intend to do anything illegal with it. I'm convinced I would win in court, but some things just aren't worth fighting in court.

Long story short, I work in Baltimore City, and the block where I work is pretty well known for being where the local junkies hang out and catch their rides. A month or two ago, the health clinic next door apparently started giving out methadone, or so I heard, and I certainly believe it based on the increase of sketchballs hanging around. If I were to start open-carrying either an ASP baton or a KaBar knife, what would be the likelihood of the cops harassing me for it? I've been working in the same spot for years now, and I recognize most of the local cops, and they may even recognize me, but I doubt that would go very far. I'm not necessarily the most clean-cut guy in the world, but I also look nothing like the low-life's I'm trying to keep away.

So, a reasonable precaution, or just asking for trouble from the BCPD? I tend to think it's just asking to be harassed, except that I'm vaguely familiar with that big court case where the cop/police department lost BIGTIME over arresting somebody for a non-existent knife law. Supposedly cops have become much more familiar with these kinds of non-firearm weapons laws since then, and aren't so gung-ho about harassing innocent citizens?

 

[montoya32]

Why do you need to open carry? What type of work do you do that you would start a large knife to your hip/leg and be comfortable moving with it? Just curious.

 

[Markp]

Wow, you're awfully judgmental of people who you don't even know, it doesn't sound like any of them have bothered you so far... what makes you think that these poor innocent drug addicts are going to do anything of the sort? They are just victims of the system...

Seriously, if I was worried about my safety where I thought I would need to defend myself just to go to work, I'd carry a concealed firearm, the law be damned. Otherwise, it's time to find a new job.

Mark

 

[Ethan83]

Why do you need to open carry? What type of work do you do that you would start a large knife to your hip/leg and be comfortable moving with it? Just curious.

Office work for all intents and purposes. There's a 12 gauge in the office, but it's the walk between our parking lot (on the other side of the street and up a bit) to the office where it's impossible to not walk by a junkie or local crackwhore (seriously; this one's been at it for years now on the same strip)

Wow, you're awfully judgmental of people who you don't even know, it doesn't sound like any of them have bothered you so far...

Perhaps I can be. To be honest, the few that have confronted me to ask about what my office is (it's behind a curious-looking locked iron gate) or for a spare cigarette, etc, have been pretty nice. There's really only two I still ever see around that are clearly bat-shit crazy of the very scary type, not the funny type.

what makes you think that these poor innocent drug addicts are going to do anything of the sort? They are just victims of the system...

One, I always think twice about a man who has nothing to lose. Two, the brand-new Big Boyz Bail Bonds t-shirts don't indicate they're the most upstanding citizen in the community.

Seriously, if I was worried about my safety where I thought I would need to defend myself just to go to work, I'd carry a concealed firearm, the law be damned. Otherwise, it's time to find a new job.

It's not like my office is located on North Ave, but we're all also very aware of all the crazy shit that's happened in Charles Village over the last year or two, which is incidentally a hop/skip from where I work. I won't try to argue that I *need* a weapon like that, but I'm pretty sure we're all on the same page insofar as believing that absolute necessity is not a prerequisite for being armed, correct?

I'm really asking this as more of a hypothetical. Again, the specific question being, should I expect the BCPD to harass me for carrying a weapon like a baton or a large fixed knife?

...Or is the point that if I really need a weapon, I shouldn't be advertising it to anyone, whether foe or police, law be damned? That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid by asking this question, but if that's the appropriate advice, I wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't reject it as sound advice either I suppose.

 

[SirMrManGuy]

If you are worried about BCPD harassment, I'd just ask a few officers you recognize what they think.

 

[Markp]

...Or is the point that if I really need a weapon, I shouldn't be advertising it to anyone, whether foe or police, law be damned? That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid by asking this question, but if that's the appropriate advice, I wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't reject it as sound advice either I suppose.

I think the way I would solve is by moving part of my collection to and from the office each day after filing my designated collector paperwork. Then you are limited to carry unloaded in an enclosed holster. Apparently there is no prohibition against carrying concealed but unloaded in an enclosed holster when transporting your collection.

I am not a lawyer, but here is what the MD code states:


§ 4-203. Wearing, carrying, or transporting handgun.

(a) Prohibited.-

(1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:

(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;

(ii) wear, carry, or knowingly transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State;

(iii) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph while on public school property in the State; or

(iv) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another person.

(2) There is a rebuttable presumption that a person who transports a handgun under paragraph (1)(ii) of this subsection transports the handgun knowingly.

(b) Exceptions.- This section does not prohibit:

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster; <- nothing here stated that it cannot be concealed on your person, as long as it is "enclosed".

Here is the penalty if you are found not excepted in paragraph b.

(c) Penalty.-

(1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to the penalties provided in this subsection.

(2) If the person has not previously been convicted under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title:

(i) except as provided in item (ii) of this paragraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 30 days and not exceeding 3 years or a fine of not less than $250 and not exceeding $2,500 or both; or

 

[Ethan83]

I think the way I would solve is by moving part of my collection to and from the office each day after filing my designated collector paperwork. Then you are limited to carry unloaded in an enclosed holster. Apparently there is no prohibition against carrying concealed when transporting your collection.

I am not a lawyer, but here is what the MD code states:


§ 4-203. Wearing, carrying, or transporting handgun.

(a) Prohibited.-

(1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:

(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;

(ii) wear, carry, or knowingly transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State;

(iii) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph while on public school property in the State; or

(iv) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another person.

(2) There is a rebuttable presumption that a person who transports a handgun under paragraph (1)(ii) of this subsection transports the handgun knowingly.

(b) Exceptions.- This section does not prohibit:

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster; <- nothing here stated that it cannot be concealed.

Here is the penalty if you are found not excepted in paragraph b.

(c) Penalty.-

(1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to the penalties provided in this subsection.

(2) If the person has not previously been convicted under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title:

(i) except as provided in item (ii) of this paragraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 30 days and not exceeding 3 years or a fine of not less than $250 and not exceeding $2,500 or both; or

So basically "California carry", or a concealed version, as long as it's unloaded and in a holster? I am a MD Designated Collector (and a C&R holder, so the Feds recognize me as a collector too), and actually have brought in my new toys to the office for show n tell with my boss under these pretenses, which is of course explicitly legitimate under the law as a private exhibition. Big difference though, it's never been carried on my person. I guess the law doesn't make a difference, and it should be fine either way, but I can't see not spending a day in jail after trying to argue that "it's okay, it's unloaded and I'm a designated collector."

It sounds like the advice I'm getting is that if I'm going to be carrying a weapon that requires an LEO to subscribe to a very strict reading of a statute in order to not ruin my day, I might as well be "operating at the edges" of a concealed law, rather than an open-carry law, so that I am less likely to be subjected to an LEO's discretion?

While that makes sense, I suppose it means the ultimate answer to my original question is that no, I should not try to open-carry those kinds of weapons, even if I'm legally allowed to.

 

[Markp]

I don't think anyone is gonna stop you if you carry a baseball bat to work. You could just as easily use a cane for self defense.

I like to garner as little attention as possible, you adapt to your surrounding as best you can. Avoid looking like a target is the best possible advice.

Mark

 

[WeaponsCollector]

You may like a Cold Steel Voyager x2, they're like a KABAR for your pocket(only it's an inch longer than a KABAR when open!). When it's in your pocket it looks like a regular pocket knife with a pocket clip.

 

[Ethan83]

I don't think anyone is gonna stop you if you carry a baseball bat to work. You could just as easily use a cane for self defense.

I like to garner as little attention as possible, you adapt to your surrounding as best you can. Avoid looking like a target is the best possible advice.

Mark

I see.

Good advice. Thank you.

 

[xcavater]

Any thing you use to harm another person becomes a deadly weapon at that point. If you feel a threat, carry something to counter it.
Personally, if I were in that situation I would carry a full sized baseball bat to work everyday. An asp has to be deployed and has limited reach as does a knife.

 

[BlackBart]

Have you considered pepper spray? Concealable and effective.

 

[montoya32]

Don't comb your hair, if you have some, twitch your head about and don't walk in a completely straight line. Maybe mumble a little too. I wouldn't walk up to someone doing that stuff.

Good luck! Sucks to have to worry about a way to get around the laws that prevent you from protecting yourself.

 

[Darkemp]

I've worked North Ave, Pennsylvania Ave, Lower Park Heights, Middle East, Edmonson Ave, Pigtown, etc for the past 6 years and stepped over junkies, brushed with dealers, and everyone else imaginable on a daily basis. What I've learned is that if you don't carry yourself like a victim you aren't treated like one. And if you're not part of their game out there, you're just background scenery that no one pays attention to.

 

[ToneGrail]

+1 on the pepper spray.

I carry it wherever I go along with a Spyderco folder and a 16 inch collapsible baton. I've never been questioned about the openly carried baton by any cop.

 

[cb51]

I always carry a nice rough knarley Irish blackthorn stick. If anyone asks, an old sports injury is bothering me. There's nothing illegal about it, and it's right there in your hand, ready to start swinging. I don't like using a regular old fogy cane, as it may imply that you are infirm in some way. Never show weakness on the street. But the rough blackthorn is a head knocker, and the low life's on the street will know it when they see you walking right along with no limp, swinging the blackthorn alongside. I've even walked right through security at BWI and onto my place with it. They asked, and I told them I have arthritis from an old service injury. All they wanted to do with it was x-ray it to see that it was solid wood, with nothing inside it.

The Irish Walk, in Alexandria sometimes has a nice selection, and you can find them with some of the spiky stubs still on them. I think I paid 30 or 40 bucks for a knoby spiky one.

 

[MikeTF]

I wear running shoes. I have no problem going for a quick jog or sprint to get out of a sticky situation.

 

[balttigger]

I used to work at Howard & Franklin in downtown Baltimore and it was required for me to be there at 0400. My parking was a lot at Eutaw & Pierce, just down from H&H Outfitters. I had to walk past two crack houses at 0-dark-thirty 6 days a week. The best option I found was to not look like a victim. Walk like you belong there, head up and aware of your surroundings. Never had a single confrontation in 2 years. I did however carry a large folding knife, just in case. I also think that due to a single altercation inside my workplace caused word to get out saying "that cracka is crazy!".

 

[Teemus]

Here is an idea for comething that no one has mentioned. Do you know someone who has a police scanner? If so, then you're halfway there. Go to your local electronics outlet and buy a digital voice recorder. Go to your friend's house some Friday or Saturday evening when the weather is good and record the Baltimore City police channel for about a couple of hours (those little recorders will hold up to 37 hours worth of recordings. Then, when you are walking from your car to the office, play the police calls a little louder than necessary. Let the junkies think that you are an undercover cop. They will avoid you like Democrats avoiding a tax cut. If any of them speak to you respond by asking them loudly if they want to become an "ear" for you. That will spell certain death for the junkie if it is overheard and one of the other junkies will rid the planet of them for the rest of us.

 

[BlueHeeler]

It is a sad day when law abiding people worry about prosecution as a result of defending themselves from those with no observance of the law.

Good luck, stay safe.