Old Model Blackhawk trouble

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  • EODJoe

    Sic Semper Tyrannis
    Jan 15, 2013
    285
    Carroll County
    During a range trip my Old Model Blackhawk in .357 locked up. The hammer is stuck somewhere around half-cock and will not move. The trigger is also locked up. The trigger plunger behind the trigger appears to be at an odd angle as well. I have not tried a disassembly yet as I am not very familiar with single action revolvers. I did remove the cylinder in order to download the ammo. Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,584
    Glen Burnie
    During a range trip my Old Model Blackhawk in .357 locked up. The hammer is stuck somewhere around half-cock and will not move. The trigger is also locked up. The trigger plunger behind the trigger appears to be at an odd angle as well. I have not tried a disassembly yet as I am not very familiar with single action revolvers. I did remove the cylinder in order to download the ammo. Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
    I'm not sure what you're looking for. Clearly something came apart or broke, so someone will have to disassemble it and take a look. If that's outside of your wheelhouse, then you'll have to find a gunsmith.

    You might be able to find videos on what's what, and I'm sure there are exploded diagrams online for how it goes together, but if you aren't mechanically inclined, your best bet is to get it to a gunsmith, and chances are you'll have to do that anyway - sometimes new parts will need some hand-fitting, and if you don't have an idea about how to do that, you'll need to find someone who does.
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,642
    MoCo
    Most revolver actions are pretty simple. I've never been into a SA revolver but have been into a DA (GP100). Wasn't bad and the SA has to be simpler, right? :) If you don't have proper hollow ground gunsmithing screwdrivers don't take it apart yourself. Ruger would surely fix it for you too but that involves shipping a firearm which is a PITA.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    SA lockwork is way simpler than DA . The only catch is lack of sideplate .

    Ruger SA generally rounds off to indestructible . What you describe is not common .( I would have seen it , or heard about , or read about it over the decades if were even semi common .)

    Spitballing about what Could cause this , my only guess if it previously worked , and you didn't disassemble inbetween, is the pin that connects the Hammer and the Hand broke or came loose ?

    Google up an exploded parts diagram , and instructions how to disassemble .

    Disassemble . Look at the parts . Something will be obviously broken .
     

    EODJoe

    Sic Semper Tyrannis
    Jan 15, 2013
    285
    Carroll County
    I appreciate the replies. I was asking mainly to see if anyone had experienced anything like this with older single action revolvers. Everything on the gun is factory original. I have a fair bit of experience with working on firearms (I was a unit level armorer and also had been sent to the Barrett factory to learn how to work on the M82A1 back in the late '90s) but have very little experience with revolvers in general. I intend to take this apart and see if I can figure it out but I'm hoping to avoid inadvertently causing any more potential damage to the gun. It is mostly a safe queen but I believe that all of my firearms should be in good working order and have available ammunition, because you just never know.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,584
    Glen Burnie
    I seriously doubt you'll do any damage to the gun by taking it apart, and to that end, it literally has to be taken apart by someone to fix it.

    I've never heard of Blackhawks having an issue like that. The only issue I've ever personally experienced is that sometimes the cylinder pin comes loose under recoil and starts to work its way out - there's a fix for that by installing a stronger catch spring, but I haven't taken the time to do that yet.

    I have a feeling that once you pull it apart, the issue is going to be pretty self-evident, and you'll be able to get whatever replacement parts you need for it pretty easily.
     

    Bountied

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    6,882
    Pasadena
    Yeah just take it apart, they are simple to disassemble and put back together. You'll see what the problem is as soon as it's apart. Then you can replace whatever is broken or fix what came loose.

     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,480
    Fairfax, VA
    Not only is disassembly very simple, removing the grip frame will take spring pressure off the hammer.

    Is it an unmodified gun or one with the transfer bar?
     

    imaoldcowhand

    Active Member
    Aug 3, 2018
    684
    It does have the transfer bar.
    Since it has the transfer bar it is a NEW model Blackhawk.
    The Old Model Blackhawk has/had the old system where you had to put the hammer in the half cock position to turn the cylinder to load and unload the revolver. With the New Model there is no half cock position. To load and unload simply open the gate and the cylinder will then rotate.
    I had an Old Model Super Blackhawk in the '70's. It malfunctioned, luckily I was outside when it did.
    Because of various malfunctions with the old system Ruger asked that all Old Model Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks be returned to them on their dime and they would replace the old system with the new transfer bar system.
    I like many others removed the old parts before returning it to Ruger as they would not return them when they "fixed" the revolver.

    You may have a problem with the transfer bar system.

     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,480
    Fairfax, VA
    Since it has the transfer bar it is a NEW model Blackhawk.
    The Old Model Blackhawk has/had the old system where you had to put the hammer in the half cock position to turn the cylinder to load and unload the revolver. With the New Model there is no half cock position. To load and unload simply open the gate and the cylinder will then rotate.
    I had an Old Model Super Blackhawk in the '70's. It malfunctioned, luckily I was outside when it did.
    Because of various malfunctions with the old system Ruger asked that all Old Model Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks be returned to them on their dime and they would replace the old system with the new transfer bar system.
    I like many others removed the old parts before returning it to Ruger as they would not return them when they "fixed" the revolver.

    You may have a problem with the transfer bar system.


    Transfer bar retrofitted Old Model is still an Old Model and mechanically different from a New Model, which only has two frame screws instead of three.

    The transfer bar retrofit was not because of malfunctions. It was because many people didn’t know how to safely load and carry them.
     

    EODJoe

    Sic Semper Tyrannis
    Jan 15, 2013
    285
    Carroll County
    Since it has the transfer bar it is a NEW model Blackhawk.
    The Old Model Blackhawk has/had the old system where you had to put the hammer in the half cock position to turn the cylinder to load and unload the revolver. With the New Model there is no half cock position. To load and unload simply open the gate and the cylinder will then rotate.
    I had an Old Model Super Blackhawk in the '70's. It malfunctioned, luckily I was outside when it did.
    Because of various malfunctions with the old system Ruger asked that all Old Model Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks be returned to them on their dime and they would replace the old system with the new transfer bar system.
    I like many others removed the old parts before returning it to Ruger as they would not return them when they "fixed" the revolver.

    You may have a problem with the transfer bar system.


    Perhaps I misunderstand. It is most assuredly a 3-screw Blackhawk. I purchased it from my brother-in-law a few years ago. He said that it had gone back to Ruger to have the safety upgrade. There is definitely a half cock position though. The serial number puts it at being manufactured around 1972. You do have to half cock the hammer to rotate the cylinder and load or unload. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just know enough that I don't know enough.
     

    IronEye

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 10, 2018
    790
    Howard County
    Is it possible that you had the gun at half-cock for loading and then lowered the hammer when you were done without going all the way back to full cock? That is one way to lock up a SAA action.
     

    EODJoe

    Sic Semper Tyrannis
    Jan 15, 2013
    285
    Carroll County
    Is it possible that you had the gun at half-cock for loading and then lowered the hammer when you were done without going all the way back to full cock? That is one way to lock up a SAA action.
    That is a possibility. A friend of mine was shooting it when the problem happened. I removed the cylinder when I couldn't get the hammer to move. I just haven't much time to look into it yet. I'm going to do a disassembly this weekend hopefully.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,584
    Glen Burnie
    Is it possible that you had the gun at half-cock for loading and then lowered the hammer when you were done without going all the way back to full cock? That is one way to lock up a SAA action.
    I just spent a couple of minutes fiddling with an old model Blackhawk and an Uberti SAA clone - I successfully lowered the hammer on both pistols from various positions and none of that caused a lockup. What did happen was that the cylinder was freed to move to the next chamber, but even trying on purpose to lock up a single action revolver I couldn't manage to do it.
     

    chilipeppermaniac

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Perhaps I misunderstand. It is most assuredly a 3-screw Blackhawk. I purchased it from my brother-in-law a few years ago. He said that it had gone back to Ruger to have the safety upgrade. There is definitely a half cock position though. The serial number puts it at being manufactured around 1972. You do have to half cock the hammer to rotate the cylinder and load or unload. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just know enough that I don't know enough.
    Here is a question for the experts.

    Before I go check my Superblackhawk which I know is a NEW style w/ transfer bar, if a new Blackhawk owner does do the half cock, will it still load the same as the old style? In other words, can it be loaded the new way AND the old way, or just the NEW way?

    When ammo prices went so high, I had to stop shooting my 44 MAG due to high prices and ammo shortages.
    So, it has been forever since I went through the loading/unloading process. My GP100 sees way more shooting these days.
     

    imaoldcowhand

    Active Member
    Aug 3, 2018
    684
    Perhaps I misunderstand. It is most assuredly a 3-screw Blackhawk. I purchased it from my brother-in-law a few years ago. He said that it had gone back to Ruger to have the safety upgrade. There is definitely a half cock position though. The serial number puts it at being manufactured around 1972. You do have to half cock the hammer to rotate the cylinder and load or unload. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just know enough that I don't know enough.
    From this I see you do have an Old Model.
    I just never heard of a transfer bar system with a half cock hammer position.
     

    imaoldcowhand

    Active Member
    Aug 3, 2018
    684
    Transfer bar retrofitted Old Model is still an Old Model and mechanically different from a New Model, which only has two frame screws instead of three.

    The transfer bar retrofit was not because of malfunctions. It was because many people didn’t know how to safely load and carry them.
    Yes I know that, but from the I read the post it sounded like he has a New model because he said that it has a transfer bar.
    I have not seen an old converted Blackhawk with the half cock hammer position.
    To me it wasn't explained well, but that's on me not the OP.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,584
    Glen Burnie
    Yes I know that, but from the I read the post it sounded like he has a New model because he said that it has a transfer bar.
    I have not seen an old converted Blackhawk with the half cock hammer position.
    To me it wasn't explained well, but that's on me not the OP.
    Dad had Ruger do the conversion on his Blackhawks (and he had a lot of them - all of them pre-1973) he later went and undid it - he didn't think it was as smooth and he didn't feel that it was necessary from a safety perspective - he did carry those as a police officer, but he probably left them on half-cock when he did it.
     

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