When an officer says drop your weapon, you better listen to him.

[teratos]

I'm a sovereign citizen....

 

[John from MD]

Serious question: The now-holy (former) deputy from Vermont was not responding to commands. Is that because he has been trained and conditioned to always hear those commands being given to someone else? As such, he is now desensitized to acting upon those commands when forcefully shouted to him?

Add in bravado, ego, fatigue, adrenaline, and familiar commands, his brain was probably thinking the arriving units were his backup.

He was probably 3 sheets to the wind or he wouldn't have gotten into an altercation in the first place.

 

[antco]

He was probably 3 sheets to the wind or he wouldn't have gotten into an altercation in the first place.

I agree, but intentionally kept the assumption of intoxication out of my theory, as it does apply to sober folks as well.

On duty officer: “DROP THE WEAPON. GET ON THE GROUND. SHOW ME YOUR HANDS”

Off duty officer: “I know he’s not talking to me. He’s giving commands to bad guy over there.

On duty officer: BANG BANG BANG PEW PEW

 

[rambling_one]

I agree, but intentionally kept the assumption of intoxication out of my theory, as it does apply to sober folks as well.

On duty officer: “DROP THE WEAPON. GET ON THE GROUND. SHOW ME YOUR HANDS”

Off duty officer: “I know he’s not talking to me. He’s giving commands to bad guy over there.

On duty officer: BANG BANG BANG PEW PEW

A theory I would never have thought of, but one that seems quite plausible.

 

[Kman]

People are dicks. Grow up.

The last time I was awake at 3am, it was to pee and stagger back to bed.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Stemming from a barroom disagreement and some brandishing. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. But good shooting on the responding officers' part, he was hit with 10 rounds.

A. If the news reports and press conference accurately reflects what actually happened .

B. Hit 10 times, concous , and expected to recover ? Quick googling turns up a pdf of actual Saratoga Springs PD firearms policies .

Their standard issue is M&P .45acp .

 

[Biggfoot44]

A theory I would never have thought of, but one that seems quite plausible.

Unfortunately all too common for plainclothes/ undercover/ off duty LE to be shot by responding uniform officers .

 

[John from MD]

People are dicks. Grow up.

The last time I was awake at 3am, it was to pee and stagger back to bed.

How true!

 

[John from MD]

Unfortunately all too common for plainclothes/ undercover/ off duty LE to be shot by responding uniform officers .

That has always been a problem although less of one back in the day because gun use by officers and criminals was much lower than today. Hell Reed and Malloy were pulling their pieces way more than I ever did.

 

[eruby]

See Dick
See Dick drink
See Dick pull
See Dick shot
Don't be a Dick

 

[4g64loser]

Unfortunately all too common for plainclothes/ undercover/ off duty LE to be shot by responding uniform officers .

A department in md, want to say PG but might be wrong, had a plainclothes officer shot outside of the station by an officer responding to a shots fired call at the location. The plainclothes fit the rough description of the suspect who was reported to be firing on the police station and had a gun in his hand. Plainclothes officer was shot.

The shoot was technically good but not many people can live with that burden without a lot of help.

There is no clear, good, solution. Active shooter SOPs are not and cannot be the same as SOPs for other calls.

In the case of the Springs officers, good shoot. Only flaw, as others have already pointed out, was the potential friendly fire issue with the other officer crossing the drawn officers line of fire.

 

[Batt816]

A. If the news reports and press conference accurately reflects what actually happened .

B. Hit 10 times, concous , and expected to recover ? Quick googling turns up a pdf of actual Saratoga Springs PD firearms policies .

Their standard issue is M&P .45acp .

Wow- 10 times with .45s, he is one tuff SOB!

 

[Huckleberry]

No Mag Dump? Way to go! Checkout that situational awareness and trigger discipline.

 

[Threeband]

I would like to know what service pistol take a "clip"...... i like to envision a garand turned into a pistol with a back scabbard

Quite a few. The Steyr Hahn is a good one.

 

[OldBrokenGrunt]

Lots of possible reasons why he didn't drop the gun. Anyone here ever fire their weapon in a gunfight? Guessing no from the comments, but could be wrong.

There is no hearing protection so not hearing very well after is not unusual. And when you’re in that situation your adrenaline is off the charts. Add in alcohol and you have a trifecta of possibilities.

Just my opinion.

 

[JoeyBimmer]

Who won the argument?

Amazing. The best even.

 

[JoeyBimmer]

From a clearer report, walking away may have been an issue at some point, but it was 3 guys attacking him. Looking at the CCTV, he is certainly acting aggressive, but it looks like his only clear line of retreat is running right into what appears to be somewhat heavy traffic behind him and dragging his girlfriend with him or abandoning her.

Without know what started it or all of the stuff leading up to them attacking him, no clue if he could have diffused it, safely left, etc.

Yeah, he for sure should have dropped it. But it looks like he took a couple good hits to the head. He might not have been hearing too well or bad tunnel vision. It wasn't like this was a minute (or several) stand-off. I would think as loud as the body camera officer was screaming "drop the gun" and that it was for a solid 8-10 seconds first it would have sunk into the off-duty officer.

Sphincter tightening that one officer who ran into the line of fire of the body cam office. Jeez. I wonder what he was thinking or if he was going to tackle the GF who basically kept standing in the line of fire. Good on the body cam officer for holding fire as that happened.

Bottle to the lips, gun off your hip.

That being said the news doesn't say if anyone was intoxicated. Any of those folks could have been sober.

 

[Melnic]

the story has been revised but holy crap… looking at one of the videos looks like one deputy ran into the line of fire of another deputy…

geeze o flip, the uniformed officer walking in front of the officer with the body cam made me cringe

 

[RFBfromDE]

24/7 bars in Saratoga Springs?

Their should be a law against that.

 

[eruby]

24/7 bars in Saratoga Springs?

Their should be a law against that.

Where do you see 24/7?

Many bars in New York are open until 3, or 4 am.

This one is listed at 4 am on google maps:

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