MSP Got one... Instructor caught cutting corners, permits invalidated.

[Dr.Duct_Mossburg]

By buddy was in that PTP class... What I am gathering is they met the time standards, but not the delivery model... and he's being directed to redo the previously recorded sessions with live zoom

Correct, I took their class and have signed up for the ZOOM. It wasn't A class... It was ALL of the classes.

 

[Tower43]

PTP was doing the same thing and just sent out a communication last night that all students need to retake the video portions either by Zoom or in person by X date.

From what I am gathering, Greene was doing like a 4 hr class and no live fire.... PTP at least met 90% of the requirement, just not the delivery model.

 

[Tower43]

Correct, I took their class and have signed up for the ZOOM. It wasn't A class... It was ALL of the classes.

Yea, I took a zoom class, but it was live, the instructor recorded it in the event of auditing, and made it clear that the camera must be on most of the time

 

[JohnnyE]

.

 

[JohnnyE]

I think the 2A community should form a Church," Church of the Blessed Ballistic " maybe. Then have all deacons be certified instructors. We can then DONATE to the tax exempt Church and use our training as a tax write-off.

Brother Maynard will care for sacred relics, like the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

 

[linkstate]

From what I am gathering, Greene was doing like a 4 hr class and no live fire.... PTP at least met 90% of the requirement, just not the delivery model.

Maybe I’m dense but what do you mean there was an issue with the delivery model for PTP? Like they said watch a video on your own time with no live verification/interaction or what?

 

[Tower43]

Maybe I’m dense but what do you mean there was an issue with the delivery model for PTP? Like they said watch a video on your own time with no live verification/interaction or what?

That's exactly it, MSP requires live instruction, either in person or live zoom. They used pre-recorded videos to deliver content.

 

[scottyfz6]

Maybe I’m dense but what do you mean there was an issue with the delivery model for PTP? Like they said watch a video on your own time with no live verification/interaction or what?

The state says parts of the class can be done over the internet via zoom or similar, but it has to be live. They used a recorded session from how I take it.

Example I could record a video of me teaching a class and put it on youtube. watching it would not qualify for taking the class even if it was exactly what I taught someone else.

 

[ASTC]

Regarding the comments of some who are recommending suing the MSP for revoking the permits of those that got their training from instructors who provided less than the required hours. I would merely like to state two (2) facts. The MD State Police training form they signed and submitted with their application clearly states:

# 1: INITIAL CERTIFICATION. THE APPLICANT LISTED ABOVE HAS RECEIVED A MINIMUM OF SIXTEEN (16) HOURS OF CLASSROOM TRAINING & QUALIFIED ON THE RANGE WITH A ________ REVOLVER/SEMI-AUTOMATIC HANDGUN.

# 2: I DO HEREBY DECLARE AND AFFIRM UNDER THE PENALTIES OF PERJURY THAT I HAVE COMPLETED THE MINIMUM CURRICULUM OF INSTRUCTION IN THE TRAINING AND USE OF HANDGUNS AS PRESCRIBED BY THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE MARYLAND STATE POLICE, PURSUANT TO COMAR, SECTION 29.03.02.05 AND I SO INDICATE BY SIGNING BELOW IN THE DESIGNATED SPACE.

I think they are fortunate to be given the opportunity to re-take the training to get their Wear & Carry permit. Perjury is a felony and, if charged and convicted, they could loose their gun rights under federal law. I would recommend that they think carefully before filing a civil suit. Just a thought.

 

[Tower43]

Regarding the comments of some who are recommending suing the MSP for revoking the permits of those that got their training from instructors who provided less than the required hours. I would merely like to state two (2) facts. The MD State Police training form they signed and submitted with their application clearly states:

# 1: INITIAL CERTIFICATION. THE APPLICANT LISTED ABOVE HAS RECEIVED A MINIMUM OF SIXTEEN (16) HOURS OF CLASSROOM TRAINING & QUALIFIED ON THE RANGE WITH A ________ REVOLVER/SEMI-AUTOMATIC HANDGUN.

# 2: I DO HEREBY DECLARE AND AFFIRM UNDER THE PENALTIES OF PERJURY THAT I HAVE COMPLETED THE MINIMUM CURRICULUM OF INSTRUCTION IN THE TRAINING AND USE OF HANDGUNS AS PRESCRIBED BY THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE MARYLAND STATE POLICE, PURSUANT TO COMAR, SECTION 29.03.02.05 AND I SO INDICATE BY SIGNING BELOW IN THE DESIGNATED SPACE.

I think they are fortunate to be given the opportunity to re-take the training to get their Wear & Carry permit. Perjury is a felony and, if charged and convicted, they could loose their gun rights under federal law. I would recommend that they think carefully before filing a civil suit. Just a thought.

That's a good point.

 

[kenpo333]

I know you would show up and object without hesitation my friend, but I wouldn't be surprised to see other instructors saying how great mandatory 32 hour classes would be.

I will be there!

 

[Reloader]

I seem to remember it stated somewhere in this thread how msp notified the people their permit was revoked but can't find it?

 

[Whodatpat]

NRA has a perfectly good handgun course that has a significant test to complete. Way more difficult and way more informative than these classes that instructors are forced to develop on their own. Have one set of curriculum written by actual gun safety people. But NO.. they can’t use anything the gun people put forward.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Regarding the comments of some who are recommending suing the MSP for revoking the permits of those that got their training from instructors who provided less than the required hours. I would merely like to state two (2) facts. The MD State Police training form they signed and submitted with their application clearly states:

# 1: INITIAL CERTIFICATION. THE APPLICANT LISTED ABOVE HAS RECEIVED A MINIMUM OF SIXTEEN (16) HOURS OF CLASSROOM TRAINING & QUALIFIED ON THE RANGE WITH A ________ REVOLVER/SEMI-AUTOMATIC HANDGUN.

# 2: I DO HEREBY DECLARE AND AFFIRM UNDER THE PENALTIES OF PERJURY THAT I HAVE COMPLETED THE MINIMUM CURRICULUM OF INSTRUCTION IN THE TRAINING AND USE OF HANDGUNS AS PRESCRIBED BY THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE MARYLAND STATE POLICE, PURSUANT TO COMAR, SECTION 29.03.02.05 AND I SO INDICATE BY SIGNING BELOW IN THE DESIGNATED SPACE.

I think they are fortunate to be given the opportunity to re-take the training to get their Wear & Carry permit. Perjury is a felony and, if charged and convicted, they could loose their gun rights under federal law. I would recommend that they think carefully before filing a civil suit. Just a thought.

I agree with your post. However, I stand by the question of why were all student's permits revoked- not just the ones on audit day? (This is my understanding of what happened)

 

[Scorpionking0102]

Drew Green was caught by MSP not meeting their standards. They've revoked all permits issued related to his classes. To his credit, he called my buddy (who took his class) and is getting him in with a new QHIC for no cost.

MSP inserted an "agent" to relay back to the state the quality of instruction. Be warned.

Everyone is commenting on this guy, but never mention where the class was taught.

 

[TheBert]

I am closely familiar with this particular situation. And yes, the instructor has gotten everyone in touch with a new QHIC at no charge and making every right. This person could have packed up shop and disappeared, but he choose to do the right thing and make sure everyone gets what they paid for. Those that were disapproved and/or invalidated, that have re-trained (Full 16hrs) have already been approved and/or re-instated!
There are 41ish other instructors being investigated as well.
'PTP' is one of the big ones that got caught too. This difference is they slapped him on the wrist and told him to re-train everyone (3k+ people), but they didn't take the QHIC from him.

He "choose to do the right thing" after he got caught not doing the right thing. If he had taught the class with the mandated 16 hours then he wouldn't have to "choose to do the right thing."

 

[Boxcab]

I agree with your post. However, I stand by the question of why were all student's permits revoked- not just the ones on audit day? (This is my understanding of what happened)

If the instructor admits that he/she/they NEVER taught all 16 hours.


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Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[Tower43]

Well for those of who dont know where was it taught?

It's somewhere in the beginning of the post... Green something solutions I think around Odenton?

 

[Tower43]

If the instructor admits that he/she/they NEVER taught all 16 hours.


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Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Or if they either a) had multiple complaints or b) audited more than one course

 

[308Scout]

It's somewhere in the beginning of the post... Green something solutions I think around Odenton?

https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/...ners-permits-invalidated.268798/#post-6798864