M1 garand loads

[bigmancrisler]

Figured I’d ask the brain trust this. So I have 4 garands. 3 are CMP service and one is CMP rack. My one service grade cycles flawlessly on 39.6gr of H335 with a 150gr pill. My other two run albeit a little begrudgingly on 41-42.5gr. Then my rack grade won’t cycle on anything less than 45gr. I have also tried this in shooters world match rifle. Does anyone have any ideas as to why one runs flawlessly and the others don’t (as much)?

FYI the other two service grades and rack all have new Orion 7 recoil springs (runs better with that sprint it seems). I had a couple other garands but sold them off and in test firing them, I had 3 other garands that cycled on 39.6 without issue. I tried swapping like every part (not all at once just one at a time) to see if it made a difference. The only one that seemed to make much of a difference was swapping bolts but I was hesitant to do that.

They all shoot well I just would prefer to be able to load them all to 39.6gr (as in the Hornady manual) and get them all to cycle to streamline reloading and reduce wear on the rifles.


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[Furious George]

The gas system components are probably worn. Piston on the op rod needs to be larger than 0.525 Gas cylinder spec is .530

 

[offthepaper]

Sounds a bit light.
One of my standard loads is 46gr of IMR 4895 capped with a 150gr HPBT or 44.2gr IMR 4895 under a 168gr SMK, for more accurate shooting.

 

[trickg]

I'd always read that IMR4895 was THE powder used to develop the new M2 Ball load for the M1 Garand. I know that reloaders have to use what they can get these days, but I've got a couple of pounds of IMR4895, and I don't load 30-06. Yet. I figured that it would be a fairly versatile powder to have on hand for a couple of things, but I'd be willing to let it go for a good cause for what I paid for it.

As for why your M1 Garands function differently with the different load, I can't really say - I don't know enough about the inner workings of that rifle - but I can tell you that it's possible that a different powder might help.

 

[Augie]

Apparently H335 has to be loaded close to max for reliable function in a Garand, I've never used it in one, always used IMR4895 or H4895 and never had function issues. May want to switch powders and see if your issues go away.

 

[bigmancrisler]

The gas system components are probably worn. Piston on the op rod needs to be larger than 0.525 Gas cylinder spec is .530

I have the gauges and I’ve gauged every garand I’ve had and have and they all pass just fine


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[bigmancrisler]

Apparently H335 has to be loaded close to max for reliable function in a Garand, I've never used it in one, always used IMR4895 or H4895 and never had function issues. May want to switch powders and see if your issues go away.

It doesn’t make sense though that in one rifle it cycles flawless every time then another it short strokes. I’d like to stay with H335 (or match rifle) as I have like 10-12lbs of H335 and 16lbs of match rifle where as I only have 3lbs of IMR 4064 and half a lb of IMR 4895


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[bigmancrisler]

I have also lubed and greased them all properly. But some just feel harder to pull back on the bolt than others. Not sure if it is wear tolerances on the bolts and receivers or not.


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[mvee]

I wonder if there is some crap inside of the oprod tube where the spring is. Some of those are pretty nasty inside. If you swap the spring and oprod from one rifle that is hard to pull back to one rifle that is easy to pull back does it change anything?

Have you checked or swapped the poppet valve? They can crack and leak gas.

Is there any evidence of the oprod rubbing on the stock ?

 

[mac1_131]

Check the op rod piston head diameter for wear.

 

[bigmancrisler]

I wonder if there is some crap inside of the oprod tube where the spring is. Some of those are pretty nasty inside. If you swap the spring and oprod from one rifle that is hard to pull back to one rifle that is easy to pull back does it change anything?

Have you checked or swapped the poppet valve? They can crack and leak gas.

Is there any evidence of the oprod rubbing on the stock ?

One of the service grades rubbed on the stock really bad when I first got it but that has since been taken care of. I haven’t tried shooting with the different valves but I have inspected them. I’ve swapped op rods and springs but not both at the same time. The rack grade I will have to take a closer look at if it is rubbing. And I haven’t cleaned the inside of the op rod tube on the rack grade but I did on the service grades as they were full of sand.


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[bigmancrisler]

Check the op rod piston head diameter for wear.

I have the gauge and they all gauge just fine


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[Park ranger]

More powder! Whats you velocity?

 

[Matlack]

Anytime someone asks about garand loads:

Recommended .30 caliber M1 loadings from the NRA
147 - 155 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets
IMR 3031 - 48.0 grains
IMR 4895 - 49.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 50.0 grains
W748 - 48.0 grains
AA2460 - 49.0 grains
AA2520 - 51.0 grains
AA2495 - 50.5 grains
H4895 - 49.0 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 49.0 grains
RL-12 - 48.0 grains

165/168 grain FMJ, HP or SP bullets
IMR 4895 - 47.0 grains
IMR 4094 - 48.0 grains
AA2520 - 47.5 grains
AA2495 - 47.0 grains
H4895 - 47.5 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 47.0 grains
RL-12 - 44.5 grains
173/175 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets

IMR 4895 - 46.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 47.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.0 grains
AA2495 - 46.0 grains
H4895 - 47.0 grains
BLC-2 - 48.0 grains
180 grain FMJ, SP or HPBT bullets
IMR 4895 - 43.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.5 grains
AA2495 - 45.5 grains
H4895 - 44.0 grains
BLC-2 - 47.5 grains
RL-12 - 41.5 grains

Master Po's comments
These loads only duplicate military spec. velocities for the given bullet weight, using commercial cases and powders. If you are using military cases, drop all charges by 2 grains.
If you are looking for accuracy, drop all charges by 1 grain and work up .2 grains at a time.
Master Po's Ancient M1 load secret
This is my personal M1 load I use in my CMP M1. It will shoot better than Master Po can. I worked this load up, as you should for your own rifle.
Remington .30/06 cases, flash holes deburred and weighed within 1 grain.
Federal GM210M Primers (Master Po has heard the horror stories of Federal match primers in the M1/M1A rifles. If you're squeamish or new to reloading, use Winchester Large Rifle)
47.0 grains IMR 4064
Sierra 175 grain MatchKing
Overall length 3.340 inches
This load, in my M1, duplicates almost perfectly the M72 match load specification with a very low standard deviation. Groups off the bench run 1 - 1.5 inches with the original 1945 barrel on the rifle. Of course, Grasshopper YMMV

 

[Doco Overboard]

Once you check many of the other things that were mentioned check the gas port, gas cylinder for being installed correctly and the barrel for excessive wear at the throat and at the splines.
If the op rod moves back and forth without binding and your spring is new see what it does with ball/issue ammo.
Thats what your rifle was meant to be run on. If your gas system s a little fiddly/loose and everythng checks out to nearly spec, you can also shoot some blanks through it and then try your ammo combo to see what results you get for functioning.

 

[Ponder_MD]

The gas system components are probably worn. Piston on the op rod needs to be larger than 0.525 Gas cylinder spec is .530

Exactly what I was going to suggest. I'd check the spring as well.

 

[bigmancrisler]

More powder! Whats you velocity?

About 2300-2400 fps. I’m not trying to load them pissing hot or even as fast as M2 ball.


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[bigmancrisler]

Anytime someone asks about garand loads:

Recommended .30 caliber M1 loadings from the NRA
147 - 155 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets
IMR 3031 - 48.0 grains
IMR 4895 - 49.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 50.0 grains
W748 - 48.0 grains
AA2460 - 49.0 grains
AA2520 - 51.0 grains
AA2495 - 50.5 grains
H4895 - 49.0 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 49.0 grains
RL-12 - 48.0 grains

165/168 grain FMJ, HP or SP bullets
IMR 4895 - 47.0 grains
IMR 4094 - 48.0 grains
AA2520 - 47.5 grains
AA2495 - 47.0 grains
H4895 - 47.5 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 47.0 grains
RL-12 - 44.5 grains
173/175 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets

IMR 4895 - 46.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 47.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.0 grains
AA2495 - 46.0 grains
H4895 - 47.0 grains
BLC-2 - 48.0 grains
180 grain FMJ, SP or HPBT bullets
IMR 4895 - 43.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.5 grains
AA2495 - 45.5 grains
H4895 - 44.0 grains
BLC-2 - 47.5 grains
RL-12 - 41.5 grains

Master Po's comments
These loads only duplicate military spec. velocities for the given bullet weight, using commercial cases and powders. If you are using military cases, drop all charges by 2 grains.
If you are looking for accuracy, drop all charges by 1 grain and work up .2 grains at a time.
Master Po's Ancient M1 load secret
This is my personal M1 load I use in my CMP M1. It will shoot better than Master Po can. I worked this load up, as you should for your own rifle.
Remington .30/06 cases, flash holes deburred and weighed within 1 grain.
Federal GM210M Primers (Master Po has heard the horror stories of Federal match primers in the M1/M1A rifles. If you're squeamish or new to reloading, use Winchester Large Rifle)
47.0 grains IMR 4064
Sierra 175 grain MatchKing
Overall length 3.340 inches
This load, in my M1, duplicates almost perfectly the M72 match load specification with a very low standard deviation. Groups off the bench run 1 - 1.5 inches with the original 1945 barrel on the rifle. Of course, Grasshopper YMMV

Ya I have this and have seen this, again I’m not trying to push them that fast nor duplicate M2 ball loads


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[bigmancrisler]

Once you check many of the other things that were mentioned check the gas port, gas cylinder for being installed correctly and the barrel for excessive wear at the throat and at the splines.
If the op rod moves back and forth without binding and your spring is new see what it does with ball/issue ammo.
Thats what your rifle was meant to be run on. If your gas system s a little fiddly/loose and everythng checks out to nearly spec, you can also shoot some blanks through it and then try your ammo combo to see what results you get for functioning.

One thing I haven’t checked is the actual gas port on the barrel to see if it’s clogged at all


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[mac1_131]

About 2300-2400 fps. I’m not trying to load them pissing hot or even as fast as M2 ball.


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That too slow IMHO.