Carrying concealed and open carrying an AR pistol in MD .... tested

[teratos]

As a disclaimer, I am the OP that posted the video here, but i am NOT the person in the video. I just happened to see the video and thought it would be of interested here

I currently have an unrestricted MD permit so certainly was intrigued. Me personally just dont understand why once they got there ,saw guns, asked if he had a permit, and he said YES (and showed it)...that the officers still did more "investigating" i felt was unneccessary. If he has that permit, then right there should be indication of no crime. Citizens call to 911 all the time for incidents that are not a crime. The permit should have dispelled that notion of a crime for the cops, but it didnt. At that point of showing permit, there was no reasonable suspicion that a crime had occurred since report was just possession of guns, not aiming at people, shooting, etc. He should have been on his way rather quickly after showing the permit, but cops clearly aren't that familiar with permits and what he's allowed to do with guns with it. He basically was held up because cops didnt know the law, and had to wait while the cops started learning while on the job...

The female cop didnt seem happy that he's legally able to carry guns where he wants and how he wants. I find it absurd she wants his whole application information emailed to her? The other cop wants his social security number and where he works because he broke no law? That's a shame. Now i own a nice expensive car, which im pretty sure a lot of you on here do too. I would have been very upset at them banging metal all up on my car like that. Call me petty, but id probably be cursing if it scratched my paint all up and stuff. Go bang and scratch it on the hood of your police car instead...

Its 2022 and i would just think that cops (her and others) would have had more experience with people with handgun permits. Permits have been issued by md state police for decades.

How often do you think cops have interactions with permit holders because they are carrying? Not common.

While I agree that the LEO did not give the “perfect performance”, it is naive to even expect it. Maryland LEO have a long anti-carry culture. That’s going to take some time and training to fix. As of now, the armed people they come across are mostly bad guys.

 

[inkd]

I love it when people open carry. It draws attention away from me.

 

[lazarus]

How often do you think cops have interactions with permit holders because they are carrying? Not common.

While I agree that the LEO did not give the “perfect performance”, it is naive to even expect it. Maryland LEO have a long anti-carry culture. That’s going to take some time and training to fix. As of now, the armed people they come across are mostly bad guys.

This. I'd wager a bet for police in Maryland it probably isn't more than maybe a couple of times a year. If even that common. And I'd imagine 95+% of those interactions if they do have one probably involved a handgun in a glove box or concealed carrying a handgun. Not an AR pistol/SBR open carried.

 

[Mark75H]

Also, why would she ask MD Licensing to email all of the "suspects" paperwork to her?

Covering her ass.

 

[Mark75H]

So any time I have a firearm I need to go directly from the range to my house, with no stops?


Do you believe they should see it as a threat?

I agree that is how it is perceived.

I would like the perception to change.

I don't think waving it in their faces is the right way to change the perception.



How often are they called out on BS calls? I'm sure this wasn't the only one today.

Maybe if the 911 dispatcher had clarified the manner in which the individual was behaving with the caller they could have resolved it with one or two officers.

When Del. Smigiel open carried an AR on the street in Maryland a few years ago a single officer responded.

That was staged

 

[Mark75H]

Lastly, the female officer's sarcastic comment that "He can just ride around with all this on him?" is ridiculous. Why shouldn't he be able to drive around and walk around with those firearms on him?

End of the day though, that is about the best outcome that can be expected in Maryland under the circumstances.

I don't think that was pure sarcasm. I think she was repeating, again to cover her ass.

 

[teratos]

I don't think that was pure sarcasm. I think she was repeating, again to cover her ass.

May have been some incredulity there, as well.

 

[Bullfrog]

That was staged

Are you saying that Mike S coordinated that with the Sheriff ahead of time?

That makes sense. I wondered about the way that stop went. The deputy was a good actor if that is true.

 

[outrider58]

If that was staged, it would have been done to demonstrate how poorly that police department is trained.

I don't expect LEOs to know law, per se. That's not their main responsibility, other than recognizing a crime in progress. I do feel they should be able to competently handle the majority of firearms out there, especially AR 15s as well as performing basic pistol manipulations.

 

[rbird7282]

Well for starters if it's locked in a vehicle who would know and if you're not sure about that get back to your bunker and secure it.

In todays time to walk around, in most urban areas, particularly populated areas like Lowes, with an AR, loaded, is asking for trouble.

Maybe 100% legal but what about the other CCW holder who see's a threat or the LEO who see's this as a threat. And in this case what about the 5-7 LEO's who were on hand to deal with this? Is this the best use of their time?

Brass balls my ass; moron.

Really? You think a legal CCW holder (who are among the most law abiding people out there) is going to shoot a guy who has an AR slung over his shoulder and isn’t doing anything? How is he a threat then? Give me a break.
What about someone open carrying a pistol with a permit? Do you not like that either?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[camo556]

If that was staged, it would have been done to demonstrate how poorly that police department is trained.

I don't expect LEOs to know law, per se. That's not their main responsibility, other than recognizing a crime in progress. I do feel they should be able to competently handle the majority of firearms out there, especially AR 15s as well as performing basic pistol manipulations.

lolwut?

How can they recognize a crime in progress if they don't know the law?

There was no crime in progress here, thats the problem.

Maryland LEOs are unprepared for the culture shock coming their way this summer.

 

[teratos]

Really? You think a legal CCW holder (who are among the most law abiding people out there) is going to shoot a guy who has an AR slung over his shoulder and isn’t doing anything? How is he a threat then? Give me a break.

My reaction would be to leave the store. I 100% recognize this as a right, it’s unusual enough that I would question intent.

 

[Bertfish]

If that was staged, it would have been done to demonstrate how poorly that police department is trained.

I don't expect LEOs to know law, per se. That's not their main responsibility, other than recognizing a crime in progress. I do feel they should be able to competently handle the majority of firearms out there, especially AR 15s as well as performing basic pistol manipulations.

I do expect them to know the law

Ignorance is no defense on your part. Why should it be on theirs?

 

[outrider58]

lolwut?

How can they recognize a crime in progress if they don't know the law?

There was no crime in progress here, thats the problem.

Maryland LEOs are unprepared for the culture shock coming their way this summer.

Do think police should have a law degree? That was what I was implying. Slow down.

 

[Sirex]

Wow, this is crazy seeing this. This is our local PD, and the Lowes we go to. Overall, I think the Westminster PD did a relatively good job, aside from the female officer's attitude. I used to go to the Guns and Grub shoots that Bollinger's used to host back in the day, and they often had Westminster PD, as well as Carroll County sheriff officers there shooting amongst us. We all know, in a different region, this could have ended very differently. I was watching this video, and my wife came over to watch with me when she heard me say Westminster PD. My wife had the typical "Why does he need all that stuff in his car, and at Lowes?" reaction. My reply was not that he needed it, but he was legally entitled to it. Of course she didn't agree, and she isn't anti gun, I suppose just puzzled by it in this day of modern mass shootings, but he had all the legal paperwork, the 2A says keep and BEAR arms, and he had a BEARcreek, which clearly validates the BEAR part. I think in this political climate the WPD did ok, the guy left unventilated, which is good. Overall, the WPD are pretty decent.

My personal view is, I don't care for (but don't oppose it) open carry based on the panic it can induce among the sheeple, but mainly because I don't want people knowing if I carried or not. But, I don't freak out the few times I have seen it on our trips to the OBX in VA and NC. My mother in law saw an open carry citizen in NC and freaked a little until I reassured her. I guess now she's ok with it. Maybe if I lived somewhere where it was more common, and I practiced OC, I'd be more open to it on a personal decision level.

 

[Mark75H]

If that was staged, it would have been done to demonstrate how poorly that police department is trained.

I don't expect LEOs to know law, per se. That's not their main responsibility, other than recognizing a crime in progress. I do feel they should be able to competently handle the majority of firearms out there, especially AR 15s as well as performing basic pistol manipulations.

The Smigel video was staged, not the Lowes video

 

[outrider58]

Really? You think a legal CCW holder (who are among the most law abiding people out there) is going to shoot a guy who has an AR slung over his shoulder and isn’t doing anything? How is he a threat then? Give me a break.
What about someone open carrying a pistol with a permit? Do you not like that either?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If this were Tel Aviv, I'd think little of it. Around here... it's a bit out of the norm. I would probably boot-scoot and boogy. on out of there.

 

[outrider58]

I do expect them to know the law

Ignorance is no defense on your part. Why should it be on theirs?

Of course they should know laws regarding crime. That was my exception. Read.

I've got news for you. Police don't know every law in the books. If they did, they'd be lawyers. Really good lawyers.

 

[outrider58]

The Smigel video was staged, not the Lowes video

My bad

 

[spoon059]

The female officer with the body cam was handling a loaded handgun and waiving it around...

Lastly, the female officer's sarcastic comment that "He can just ride around with all this on him?" is ridiculous....

End of the day though, that is about the best outcome that can be expected in Maryland under the circumstances.

I agree, my immediate thought is that you NEVER accept a gun from anyone without making your own determination that the gun is safe. Even at the range from another officer, I'm inspecting that gun. Even with the mag out and the slide locked open, I'm inspecting that gun. I had an officer that was senior to me searching a car and recover a gun from the back seat, he pointed it at me and said it was a replica. It wasn't. I was quite pissed at this guy. An Army guy, none the less.

Reference the female officer's sarcastic comment... I don't think it was sarcastic, I think it was incredulous, like she just came to the realization that people can legally carry a gun. Sarcasm would have been preferable to what I believe was actually ignorance.

I disagree that its the BEST outcome, and in fact it was a belabored obvious outcome that should have been cleared up much quicker (although I believe your comment may have been tongue-in-cheek about the draconian gun laws and the way they are enforced in Maryland). He had a permit, his guns were legal and there was no PC that a crime occurred. They shouldn't have been banging guns off his painted trunk lid either. There have been plenty of times I've gotten a call about someone with a gun and was able to quickly determine that everything is fine. Either they have a carry permit (very rare in my experience) or they are an upstanding citizen tht isn't obviously engaged in criminal behavior other than having a gun in their car when they shouldn't. No drugs, no warrants, no protective orders and the gun isn't stolen, I tend to give you a verbal warning about the anti-gun laws in Maryland and encourage you to do your best not to violate them and I move along. On the other hand, if you are using alcohol or drugs, or you have a warrant, or protective order, or you run from me (or any other type of similar behavior) and you have a gun on you, I know just enough about the gun laws to usually make the arrest.

I guess I can understand the argument for these types of forced police encounters, but I just want to give some words of caution. Much like this female officer appeared oblivious to the laws, so are many members of the public. We live in a nanny state full of idiots that feel they need the government to do everything for them. These 2nd Amendment audits could very easily cause these idiots to be more vocal and even more scared about the "scary guns" and could get even more laws passed and demand more punishment from the court system. It is a double edged sword. I worry that the juice just isn't worth the squeeze, and the negative attention could prove to make things more restrictive in the future. Again, these are my thoughts and everyone is free to disagree with them.

I honestly don't feel that gun laws will ever become substantially better in Maryland. One of my retirement demands is to live in a state where my wife and daughters can legally carry a weapon for their own protection. I will ensure that they are trained and safe, but they should have the same God given right to protect themselves that Maryland only believes that police officers should have.