Are SBR's legal in MD?

[yellow97tt6spd]

Any Maryland AOW length/ feature rules?..

 

[outrider58]

Any Maryland AOW length/ feature rules?..

Not as far as I know. I would consult NFA branch of ATFE.

 

[Pinecone]

They never really have said that, the conversations started in 2013 when the bill got passed, and the conversation has been the same since.

And you have heard it, every time I have brought it up to correct people. Oh, wait, you want something official in writing, instead of the word of a former President of a state 2A organization???

No, I am fine hearing it from you.

I just don't remember seeing you say that before.

 

[Pinecone]

MSP went to BATF.....What does that actually mean?

Is a rejection of a form 1 less than 29" a personal experience?

TR

Reverse , ATF goes to MSP ( or whatever relevant agency in whichever jurisdiction ) to confirm that whatever is Legal in that jurisdiction , if ATF has any doubt or confusion .

Bottom line - ATF will not approve anything not legal in the local jurisdiction(s) of applicant .

Like I said before, ATFE upholds each states NFA 'allowances'. For some states it might be no suppressors. In another state it might be no machine guns. In Md's case, it is no centerfire semi-automatic SBRs under 29" in length. It is up the the individual state legislators to decide what NFA items will be allowed in a given state. The ATFE enforces those allowances. It's that simple.

As I remember it, and it is documented in at least one thread, BATF WAS approving SBR Form 1s for under 29" OAL.

MSP contacted BATF about the 29" rule, and BATF stopped approving under 29" Form 1s.

The question was, why are requirements for a RIFLE being applied to an SBR that another part of the MD COMAR states is a handgun.

No, I have not had one not approved by BATF, but if you do a search, you will find MANY people have. Including a few that had them not approved for rim fire SBRs, which do not have to meet the 29" rule.

But if you don't think it works that way, please submit a Form 1 for a centerfire SBR under 29" and tell us how you got it approved.

 

[outrider58]

As for COMAR referring to SBRs as pistols, I believe that has to do with transport of SBRs being governed by the same regulations as handguns.

 

[dblas]

No, I am fine hearing it from you.

I just don't remember seeing you say that before.

I end up saying it in pretty much every thread that the issue of "suppressors are flash hiders" comes up.

 

[yellow97tt6spd]

Thanks!

 

[DaemonAssassin]

As for COMAR referring to SBRs as pistols, I believe that has to do with transport of SBRs being governed by the same regulations as handguns.

Uh....

Chapter 29.03.03. Handgun Roster Board

http://mdrules.elaws.us/comar/29.03.03

Sec. 29.03.03.12. Review of Petition*

"A. Upon request, the petitioner shall submit a representative sample of a handgun under consideration."

Sec. 29.03.03.01. Definitions

(3) Handgun.
(a) “Handgun” means a pistol, a revolver, or any other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.
(b) “Handgun” does not include a shotgun, a rifle, a short-barreled rifle, a short-barreled shotgun, or an antique firearm.
(4) “Handgun Roster” means the roster of permitted handguns compiled by the Board under Public Safety Article, §5-406(a)(1), Annotated Code of Maryland.

(5) “Hearing” means a hearing held by the Board to determine whether a handgun should be placed on the Handgun Roster.
(6) “Manufacture” means to engage in the licensed business of producing handguns from raw materials or assembling handguns from parts, or both of these, for sale or distribution, and to assign a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms registered serial number to the frame or receiver. Nothing in this definition shall be construed to apply to any customizing services performed by a pistolsmith or gunsmith that do not remove any safety mechanisms of the handgun, reduce the overall size of the handgun, shorten the barrel length, or reduce the caliber to less than that of any model variation of the handgun previously approved by the Board.

(11) “Petition” means a formal written request to the Board for the inclusion of a handgun on the Handgun Roster.
(12) “Petitioner” means a person who files with the Board a petition to have a certain handgun included on the Handgun Roster.

I recently had a 5320.20 disapproved by the ATF because a Form 1 Aero Precision SBR needed to be submitted to the board for approval. Bear in mind the approved stamp hit my email on 3/18 and the 5320.20 was emailed on 3/25. I went to MSP LD for help and Sgt. Edward's emailed me a link to a pdf from 2015 that stated SBR's do not have to go before the board. The above quoted text is from the administrator for the handgun review board in regards to my issue. I was ready to fight NFA Branch over the phone and in person if need be over their stupidity.

I was notified today that it doesn't need to be sent to the Board for approval, by the examiner and to resubmit and it will be approved with no issues.

The reason why SBR's fall under "pistol" is when a Form 4 transfer occurs, a 77r must be filled out and 7 day wait is required before picking up.

 

[jcutonilli]

The question was, why are requirements for a RIFLE being applied to an SBR that another part of the MD COMAR states is a handgun.

I would have thought that my response in a previous thread would have helped answer the question. https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=6249161&postcount=33

How a firearm is defined changes depending on which section of the law is being applied. The COMAR implements the law, so its definitions will change depending on the underlying law.

The 29" requirements for a rifle come from MD Criminal Law Title 4 Subtitle 3. The subtitle prohibits the possession of an "assault weapon" (Section 4-303) which includes "copycat weapons" (Section 4-301).

A "copycat weapon" is defined as

(h) Copycat weapon. --
(1) "Copycat weapon" means:
(i) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has any two of the following:
1. a folding stock;
2. a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
3. a flash suppressor;
(ii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds;
(iii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 29 inches;
(iv) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds;
(v) a semiautomatic shotgun that has a folding stock; or
(vi) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
(2) "Copycat weapon" does not include an assault long gun or an assault pistol.

There is no exemption in the definition for barrel length or handgun so it would be hard to justify something everyone refers to as a rifle as something other than a rifle given the definition.

 

[outrider58]

The question was, why are requirements for a RIFLE being applied to an SBR that another part of the MD COMAR states is a handgun.

COMAR does not state that an SBR is a handgun. The only time SBRs receive the same consideration as handguns is while being transported outside the home. All handgun transport rules apply to SBRs, outside the home, inside Md. state lines.

Why you ask? I could only guess but, I'm not here to guess. Draw your own conclusions. I doubt you will ever find an opinion on it.

 

[lazarus]

COMAR does not state that an SBR is a handgun. The only time SBRs receive the same consideration as handguns is while being transported outside the home. All handgun transport rules apply to SBRs, outside the home, inside Md. state lines.

Why you ask? I could only guess but, I'm not here to guess. Draw your own conclusions. I doubt you will ever find an opinion on it.

IMHO I think it is easy enough to assume because an SBR is considered "concealable" and thus handgun transport rules. Not really sure it matters a whole lot unless we wanted to try to change the law. In which case then maybe it would matter as to the why.

 

[jcutonilli]

IMHO I think it is easy enough to assume because an SBR is considered "concealable" and thus handgun transport rules. Not really sure it matters a whole lot unless we wanted to try to change the law. In which case then maybe it would matter as to the why.

You don't need to assume anything. The reason that an SBR is considered a handgun for transport rules is that it is defined as a handgun for transport rules. See Criminal Law Sections 4-201 and 4-203.

An SBR is also considered a rifle under the "Assault Weapon" section (Subtitle 3) of Criminal Law Article. (see 4-301) because there is no mention of handguns in this subtitle.

You need to read the definitions when evaluating what something is especially with SBRs because the definitions may change between subtitles in the same title.

 

[outrider58]

You don't need to assume anything. The reason that an SBR is considered a handgun for transport rules is that it is defined as a handgun for transport rules. See Criminal Law Sections 4-201 and 4-203.

An SBR is also considered a rifle under the "Assault Weapon" section (Subtitle 3) of Criminal Law Article. (see 4-301) because there is no mention of handguns in this subtitle.

You need to read the definitions when evaluating what something is especially with SBRs because the definitions may change between subtitles in the same title.

WTF? I thought I said that allready.

Well that clears everything up. Thanks!

 

[lazarus]

You don't need to assume anything. The reason that an SBR is considered a handgun for transport rules is that it is defined as a handgun for transport rules. See Criminal Law Sections 4-201 and 4-203.

An SBR is also considered a rifle under the "Assault Weapon" section (Subtitle 3) of Criminal Law Article. (see 4-301) because there is no mention of handguns in this subtitle.

You need to read the definitions when evaluating what something is especially with SBRs because the definitions may change between subtitles in the same title.

I am well aware that is what the law says.

The “why” I am addressing isn’t why is an SBR treated under the provisions, well duh it says it in the law.

I mean the legislative intent in putting it in there in the first place.

Because traditionally SBRs in federal and many states’ laws have treated SBRs as concealable. I have little doubt that is why the legislature decided to have SBRs treated as handguns in transport law.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Oh that ! That's easy to answer , very short list of possibilities :

1. They really are that stupid/ illogical , and don't know/ don't care .

2. They DO know/ care , but their overall goal is to be confusing on purpose, and F with us as much as possible .

 

[Mark75H]

Damn? Are we trying to 'make sense' of MD firearms law - AGAIN? DUH!

 

[jcutonilli]

WTF? I thought I said that allready.

Well that clears everything up. Thanks!

You actually said this:

COMAR does not state that an SBR is a handgun. The only time SBRs receive the same consideration as handguns is while being transported outside the home. All handgun transport rules apply to SBRs, outside the home, inside Md. state lines.

Why you ask? I could only guess but, I'm not here to guess. Draw your own conclusions. I doubt you will ever find an opinion on it.

You never really stated a reason why.

You are also incorrect about the first paragraph also. They are defined as handguns in COMAR 29.03.01.01, which references the MD code definition.

(n) Handgun. --
(1) "Handgun" means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
(2) "Handgun" includes signal, starter, and blank pistols.

They are treated as handguns for the purposes of regulated firearms requirements which include other requirement, not just transport rules.

 

[jcutonilli]

I am well aware that is what the law says.

The “why” I am addressing isn’t why is an SBR treated under the provisions, well duh it says it in the law.

I mean the legislative intent in putting it in there in the first place.

Because traditionally SBRs in federal and many states’ laws have treated SBRs as concealable. I have little doubt that is why the legislature decided to have SBRs treated as handguns in transport law.

There was no "legislative intent" to subject SBRs to OAL requirements. It happened because there was no definition of rifle in the section and SBRs happen to be rifles.

 

[outrider58]

You actually said this:



You never really stated a reason why.

You are also incorrect about the first paragraph also. They are defined as handguns in COMAR 29.03.01.01, which references the MD code definition.

They are treated as handguns for the purposes of regulated firearms requirements which include other requirement, not just transport rules.

Where does that say short barreled rifle?

There was a time when Md's minimum length for SBRs was 26". That was changed to 29" sometime after 2013 FSA. Was the change an attempt to render SBRs less concealable?

More questions than answers

 

[RipperRio]

Yes. VF31 Tomcatters.