M&P 2.0 stovepipe issue

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  • gremlin42

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2020
    696
    variable
    Yesterday I went up to Bel Air to meet some friends at the indoor range. Since they are well-stocked in reasonably priced ammo and I don’t like cutting into my stockpile right now I bought 2 boxes of Sellier & Bellot 124-grain (9mm) and shot through it all.

    I’m shooting an M&P 2.0 9 compact (4”) with about 1600 rds through it thus far without a single malfunction until yesterday. I frequently break things up with that drill where you rack, drop the mag, fire, and then dry-fire the follow up shot to confirm I’m not jerking the trigger (this drill also helps stretch things out in light of the shortage). My first one was fine. Reloaded, dropped mag, shot - had a stovepipe. I thought maybe just a fluke, so I cleared it, reloaded, repeated - second stovepipe. Resumed shooting normally and put another full box through it without issue, so it’s fine as long as the magazine follower is in the mix.

    Today I do a little diagnosis - with my home defense mag loaded, I can drop the mag, then clear, and the chambered round is ejected through the top as usual (I never had an issue showing clear at steel challenges either but in that case I tip the the gun sideways so the cartridge lands on the barrel and I don’t waste 40 cents). I loaded some snap caps in a magazine and did the same thing - if the mag is in place it ejects normally, but without a mag it falls through the well.

    I know some consider this a non-issue bc in a real life scenario where for some reason I have a chambered round and an empty mag well it really doesn’t matter what happens after the bullet leaves the gun. Though it would suck to not be able to do this drill without malfunctions. Is this a sign of early wear on the extractor or another issue? Totally normal and should I not worry about it?
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,714
    Glen Burnie
    Limp wristing on that dropped mag move.
    Very rarely is it an equipment issue.
    Pistol grip is key.
    I've never been on a forum where everyone always blames the equipment. It's never the shooter problem.
    Funny how you decided to "switch things up" and then have issues.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,452
    Montgomery County
    Limp wristing on that dropped mag move.
    Very rarely is it an equipment issue.
    Pistol grip is key.
    I've never been on a forum where everyone always blames the equipment. It's never the shooter problem.
    Funny how you decided to "switch things up" and then have issues.

    Mrs. Occam got one of those M&P "ez" 380s. Constant stovepiping and other weirdness. I was able to replicate them using my twice-as-big-and-strong hands. Got S&W to swap out five mags with stiffer springs. Problem went away.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,714
    Glen Burnie
    Mrs. Occam got one of those M&P "ez" 380s. Constant stovepiping and other weirdness. I was able to replicate them using my twice-as-big-and-strong hands. Got S&W to swap out five mags with stiffer springs. Problem went away.
    Ahh. The unicorn with a small, light round.
     

    gremlin42

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2020
    696
    variable
    Limp wristing on that dropped mag move.
    Very rarely is it an equipment issue.
    Pistol grip is key.
    I've never been on a forum where everyone always blames the equipment. It's never the shooter problem.
    Funny how you decided to "switch things up" and then have issues.

    I think you’re misreading here; I’ve done this drill probably between 50 and 100 times and have done it nearly every time I’m at the range since probably June. And I’m definitely not limp-wristing it. I’m not “blaming my instrument” here and I suppose anything is possible, but I don’t think this checks out.
     

    gremlin42

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2020
    696
    variable
    Mrs. Occam got one of those M&P "ez" 380s. Constant stovepiping and other weirdness. I was able to replicate them using my twice-as-big-and-strong hands. Got S&W to swap out five mags with stiffer springs. Problem went away.

    I’m surprised the original mags weren’t already that stiff - the two 10 rounders that shipped with mine are really difficult to hand-load and the 15 round ones I’ve bought since are much better but still stiffer than just about any I’ve encountered. Maybe this is a recent thing with S&W.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,714
    Glen Burnie
    I think you’re misreading here; I’ve done this drill probably between 50 and 100 times and have done it nearly every time I’m at the range since probably June. And I’m definitely not limp-wristing it. I’m not “blaming my instrument” here and I suppose anything is possible, but I don’t think this checks out.
    So you've changed up ammo this time?
    Did anyone else shoot this "drill"?
    Different set of hands and eyes makes a difference.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,452
    Montgomery County
    Ahh. The unicorn with a small, light round.

    The issue was that in the interests of completing the "EZ"-ness of the product, they wanted the mags to be very easy to load. So, very light spring, and a side pull-down thumb anchor to compress the spring (like on a Ruger 22 MK-whatever mag). Indeed, very easy to load - someone with bad arthritis could do it. But the first (very big) batch of mags they shipped got those springs a little too squishy. So, on recoil, you'd sometimes see - towards the end of the mag - a live round go bouncing out of the gun as it cycled, or see it get caught nose-up in the ejection port if it didn't fly out fast enough.

    I don't know if anyone's having the same problems on the 9mm version of the EZ. They apparently had to swap around a lot of the 380 mags. Point is, I spent a lot of Marriage Points on trying fix what I thought was a bad grip or limp wrist on her part, and damn if it was indeed the hardware.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,714
    Glen Burnie
    The issue was that in the interests of completing the "EZ"-ness of the product, they wanted the mags to be very easy to load. So, very light spring, and a side pull-down thumb anchor to compress the spring (like on a Ruger 22 MK-whatever mag). Indeed, very easy to load - someone with bad arthritis could do it. But the first (very big) batch of mags they shipped got those springs a little too squishy. So, on recoil, you'd sometimes see - towards the end of the mag - a live round go bouncing out of the gun as it cycled, or see it get caught nose-up in the ejection port if it didn't fly out fast enough.



    I don't know if anyone's having the same problems on the 9mm version of the EZ. They apparently had to swap around a lot of the 380 mags. Point is, I spent a lot of Marriage Points on trying fix what I thought was a bad grip or limp wrist on her part, and damn if it was indeed the hardware.
    This is reminiscent of a Walther p22 I had.
     

    gremlin42

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2020
    696
    variable
    Limp wristing on that dropped mag move.
    Very rarely is it an equipment issue.
    Pistol grip is key.
    I've never been on a forum where everyone always blames the equipment. It's never the shooter problem.
    Funny how you decided to "switch things up" and then have issues.

    To clarify the drill, I remove the mag then I build my grip and push out to the target exactly the same as I always would. If I didn’t have a solid grip it would defeat the purpose bc I’m trying to maintain sight picture throughout.
     

    gremlin42

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2020
    696
    variable
    The issue was that in the interests of completing the "EZ"-ness of the product, they wanted the mags to be very easy to load. So, very light spring, and a side pull-down thumb anchor to compress the spring (like on a Ruger 22 MK-whatever mag). Indeed, very easy to load - someone with bad arthritis could do it. But the first (very big) batch of mags they shipped got those springs a little too squishy. So, on recoil, you'd sometimes see - towards the end of the mag - a live round go bouncing out of the gun as it cycled, or see it get caught nose-up in the ejection port if it didn't fly out fast enough.

    I don't know if anyone's having the same problems on the 9mm version of the EZ. They apparently had to swap around a lot of the 380 mags. Point is, I spent a lot of Marriage Points on trying fix what I thought was a bad grip or limp wrist on her part, and damn if it was indeed the hardware.

    That makes sense; maybe over correction for the usual really tough springs. Yesterday my buddy (Glock guy who had never tried the M&P) tried to handload one of mine before trying it out and had an unpleasant experience.
     

    gremlin42

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2020
    696
    variable
    I’ll probably head to AGC with my own ammo this weekend to see if I can replicate the issue. And if it is really just related to shooting without a magazine in place then probably nbd in the grand scheme.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,588
    Harford County, Maryland
    OP, Sellier and Bellot has had reputation in the past for causing such malfunctions...especially in 45 ACP. Before condenming anything, including yourself since you’ve had no issue before doing the drill on other previous occasions, try a couple boxes of your stashed you KNOW works in your pistol. The only thing that has changed is the ammo.

    The no mag extractor test is a good one. But if the pistol is short stroking from too low velocity or too slow a powder (weak recoil impulse) it will fail be ause the momentum on the ejector is weak.

    Personally I’ll use S&B ammo if the price and availability is good - but strickly for blasting and practice. I use other proven brands and loads as my go to ammo.
     

    gremlin42

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2020
    696
    variable
    I'm glad I am not the only one. :rolleyes:

    The idea is to shoot a live round immediately followed by a dry-fire. Learned this at a defensive training course I took back in June. Confirms that you’re not unconsciously jerking the trigger. I know sometimes after I’ve been shooting for awhile like at the steel challenges, I start flinching and snatching the trigger a bit without realizing it. Becomes evident when I start shooting low and left. At this point I may not need it bc I do regular dry fire at home but it’s a good check-in and helps me stretch out my range time without burning ammo as fast.
     

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