HBAR vs. govt profile rules

[RoadDawg]

One minor correction to the above...Maryland wanted to follow in CA's path and basically copied their regulated rifles list back in 1989 for the first 39 rifles on the regulated list. MSRPA was successful in getting the Colt Sporter HBAR specifically exempted for competition reason, because COLT still owned the patent back in 1989 and was the only HBAR on the market at the time. Fast forward to 1992 when Bushmaster made a heavy Barrel version of their AR-15. MSP, in written correspondence, verified that the Bushmaster heavy barrel was a copy of the Colt Sporter HBAR and could be sold cash and carry. Then the other heavy barrel copies came along.



The additions to the regulated list were based on this and came about in 1994 in Maryland.

This is the real reason that HBAR rifles remained legal to possess in Maryland then and subsequently now.

And as I was told back then... MSRPA was helped by support of the military because they did not want their visiting shooters to be placed in jeopardy of violating Maryland gun laws while participating in the Maryland Shooting Competitions.

And the “weight” of the barrel really had no bearing on the issue other than the fact that the HBAR rifle does not have the cutout portion of the barrel which allows the M-203 to be attached. The fact that the rifle was designated by Colt as a “MATCH TARGET” stamped “MATCH HBAR” rifle... helped to sell the “approval“ for the exemption to the MGA. The “copy” exemptions for other manufacturer’s HBARs came later as you pointed out.

Example:

 

[Mark75H]

This is the real reason that HBAR rifles remained legal to possess in Maryland then and subsequently now.

And as I was told back then... MSRPA was helped by support of the military because they did not want their visiting shooters to be placed in jeopardy of violating Maryland gun laws while participating in the Maryland Shooting Competitions.

And the “weight” of the barrel really had no bearing on the issue other than the fact that the HBAR rifle does not have the cutout portion of the barrel which allows the M-203 to be attached. The fact that the rifle was designated by Colt as a “MATCH TARGET” stamped “MATCH HBAR” rifle... helped to sell the “approval“ for the exemption to the MGA. The “copy” exemptions for other manufacturer’s HBARs came later as you pointed out.

Absolutely correct and there was exemplary testimony by a teenage girl to the legislature that seemed to be the turning point on allowing the HBAR because of its use in shooting sport.

 

[dblas]

Absolutely correct and there was exemplary testimony by a teenage girl to the legislature that seemed to be the turning point on allowing the HBAR because of its use in shooting sport.

Ummm, you might be confusing 2013, when she testified against SB281, with 1989, when the HBAR was exempted from being regulated.

The AR-15 HBAR was never in any danger of being banned in 2013 since it wasn't regulated previously. There was no language in SB281 to add the HBAR to the banned list either.

She testified against banning the AR-15 period, because, at the time, she was a competitive shooter and was aiming for scholarships. She has since earned said scholarship from what I have been told.

 

[Mark75H]

Ummm, you might be confusing 2013, when she testified against SB281, with 1989, when the HBAR was exempted from being regulated.

The AR-15 HBAR was never in any danger of being banned in 2013 since it wasn't regulated previously. There was no language in SB281 to add the HBAR to the banned list either.

She testified against banning the AR-15 period, because, at the time, she was a competitive shooter and was aiming for scholarships. She has since earned said scholarship from what I have been told.

You are right. My guess is that testimony is still part of the reason HBARs are still with us

 

[mvee]

I remember a young lady testifying against the collapsible stock ban. She had a pink m4 stock as a prop.

 

[rbird7282]

Had you been with us in 2013 you would understand this a little better. Trying to grasp it looking back looses a lot of the context. One of the mistakes is assuming that they think anything; they don't. Its about FEELING. They need to FEEL GOOD.

-Note: Fernando does not approve, we all know "It iz morre imporrtant to look good than to feel good and Ju look MAAAVELOUSS!" (sorry couldn't resist).

It’s not about FEELING, it’s about CONTROL. PERIOD.


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[Mark75H]

It’s not about FEELING, it’s about CONTROL. PERIOD.


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You need to check them out in person. They aint that smart. The puppetmasters behind the scenes are, but the bodies in the GA aren't.

 

[rbird7282]

You need to check them out in person. They aint that smart. The puppetmasters behind the scenes are, but the bodies in the GA aren't.

I’ve been there in person several times. I will agree that some in the MGA are complete morons


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[Doug Hile]

Sad. SHALL NOT INFRINGE. Why are we being soo careful to tip toe around the "rules"?

 

[lemmdus]

I really wouldn't worry about it.

 

[jjjefferson]

Absolutely correct and there was exemplary testimony by a teenage girl to the legislature that seemed to be the turning point on allowing the HBAR because of its use in shooting sport.

That was Sarah Merkle. She was also the Treasurer of the Maryland Rifle Club at the time.

 

[jsawyer]

You bought the gun cash and carry in HBAR config which is non regulated. When you attach a non HBAR upper on that lower you have made an illegal firearm as its now in a regulated configuration with no paperwork. Its no different than taking an AR bought as a regulated firearm rifle and trying to make it a pistol. once a rifle always a rifle. Iv been shooting on private land and had the State Police drive up and ask to see all of the firearms. They called in every SN# to make sure none of the guns were stolen. On a 22lr pistol they said the serial number and the dispatcher said my name back. the officer never told the dispatcher my name, so regulated firearms must be logged somewhere with serial number, owner and maybe date of purchase.

 

[Pinecone]

You bought the gun cash and carry in HBAR config which is non regulated. When you attach a non HBAR upper on that lower you have made an illegal firearm as its now in a regulated configuration with no paperwork.

Show us where is stated in writing? Clue - it isn't.

Its no different than taking an AR bought as a regulated firearm rifle and trying to make it a pistol. once a rifle always a rifle.

WRONG. Making a pistol out of a rifle is a FEDERAL crime based on the National Firearms Act of 1934. And doing this is specifically banned in writing in the law.

Iv been shooting on private land and had the State Police drive up and ask to see all of the firearms. They called in every SN# to make sure none of the guns were stolen. On a 22lr pistol they said the serial number and the dispatcher said my name back. the officer never told the dispatcher my name, so regulated firearms must be logged somewhere with serial number, owner and maybe date of purchase.

Hmm do you remember filling out the Form 77 and waiting at least 7 days to pick up your pistol? That was a state form. And part of that form states that you agree to "voluntarily" register that firearm.

Yeah, they DO have all your regulated purchases on file (if purchased in MD). The STATE is not prevented from doing so, the FEDERAL government is prohibited from having a gun ownership list.

Oh, and if you had sold that pistol legally to another person within MD, after Sept 20, 1996, their name AND your name would have come. Once you have submitted a Form 77 on any regulated firearm, your name is associated with that firearm.

 

[rseymorejr]

so regulated firearms must be logged somewhere with serial number, owner and maybe date of purchase.

Not all. I have plenty of legally owned regulated firearms that won't pop up in their database.

 

[Pinecone]

Not all. I have plenty of legally owned regulated firearms that won't pop up in their database.

They are, if purchased in Maryland since Oct 1, 1996.

But yes, you could have regulated firearms face to face prior to that date, or purchased out of state when you were not an MD resident.

 

[40watt]

So...

The law says that we are required to have a HBAR on anything after 10-1-2013 still? I heard some confused folks talking and heard them saying something about "newer changes" in the law. I know the serial number thing was shot down.

 

[esqappellate]

That was Sarah Merkle. She was also the Treasurer of the Maryland Rifle Club at the time.

I was there as part of an expert panel and watched her testimony. She was 15 at the time. Sarah is *the* reason that adjustable stocks were taken off the prohibited feature list and it went from one feature to two features. We all owe her a debt of gratitude.

 

[rockstarr]

Show us where is stated in writing? Clue - it isn't.



WRONG. Making a pistol out of a rifle is a FEDERAL crime based on the National Firearms Act of 1934. And doing this is specifically banned in writing in the law.




Hmm do you remember filling out the Form 77 and waiting at least 7 days to pick up your pistol? That was a state form. And part of that form states that you agree to "voluntarily" register that firearm.

Yeah, they DO have all your regulated purchases on file (if purchased in MD). The STATE is not prevented from doing so, the FEDERAL government is prohibited from having a gun ownership list.

Oh, and if you had sold that pistol legally to another person within MD, after Sept 20, 1996, their name AND your name would have come. Once you have submitted a Form 77 on any regulated firearm, your name is associated with that firearm.

so, just to be clear., you're telling us all that buying a heavy barreled ar-15, and changing the barrel to a pencil profiled barrel is legal

 

[Pinecone]

so, just to be clear., you're telling us all that buying a heavy barreled ar-15, and changing the barrel to a pencil profiled barrel is legal

For a PRE FSA2013 AR, yes.

There is no prohibition to doing so.

If you purchased the AR after Sept 20, 2013, no, you would then be in possession of a banned firearm.

 

[JohnnyE]

That was Sarah Merkle. She was also the Treasurer of the Maryland Rifle Club at the time.

I was there as part of an expert panel and watched her testimony. She was 15 at the time. Sarah is *the* reason that adjustable stocks were taken off the prohibited feature list and it went from one feature to two features. We all owe her a debt of gratitude.

^^^ This RIGHT HERE is why you should NEVER say that your lone opinion, or your one vote, doesn't make a difference.

ALWAYS TAKE ACTION!