Noah's Law and PBJ

[Not_an_outlaw]

Heard something on the radio yesterday that individuals are escaping the requirements of Noah's law that requires a breathalyzer lockout unit in a car after a DUI. The law states that if you got a PBJ, a PBJ is not a conviction, so you aren't required to have the breathalyzer interlock installed.

Doesn't the MSP consider a PBJ a disqualifier in a background check, basically citing it as a conviction?

Can we use this?

 

[KevinK]

Use this how? I am not sure I understand what you mean.

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

Use this how? I am not sure I understand what you mean.

If the MSP is denying purchases based on somebody's PBJ, stating is disqualifying, can't you point to the Noah's law argument and say, look, a PBJ is not a disqualifier.

 

[jrumann59]

If the MSP is denying purchases based on somebody's PBJ, stating is disqualifying, can't you point to the Noah's law argument and say, look, a PBJ is not a disqualifier.

The difference is one is a revenue generator, ie driver, registration, tolls, income tax, the other is just a some crazy hobby that really has no place in the world...

 

[danb]

I think PBJs only for certain offenses are disqualifying.

 

[newmuzzleloader]

PBJ for a DWI s not a disqualifying offense for firearm purchase. Unless something has been changed from early last yr.

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

The difference is one is a revenue generator, ie driver, registration, tolls, income tax, the other is just a some crazy hobby that really has no place in the world...

I'm 100% sure that is the reason, but it doesn't make a good legal argument.

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

PBJ for a DWI s not a disqualifying offense for firearm purchase. Unless something has been changed from early last yr.

Other PBJs are, like domestic violence.

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

I think PBJs only for certain offenses are disqualifying.

Exactly. They all are or they all are not. It can't be both.

 

[jrumann59]

I'm 100% sure that is the reason, but it doesn't make a good legal argument.

In the State of MD when has good legal argument needed by the state to stop something. Seriously. IF that were the case handguns would be banned but sporting rifles would be king.

 

[NateIU10]

Exactly. They all are or they all are not. It can't be both.

Firearms law spells out that certain criminal conviction and certain PBJs are prohibiting. A separate law states only that a conviction of a certain crime has certain penalties. I don't really understand what you are saying here.

 

[danb]

Exactly. They all are or they all are not. It can't be both.

According to whom?

The legal scholars that habit the Internet?


We actually did have a case a little bit ago, the legislture made pot convictions expungeable in 2016 I think and someone got their HQL after getting it expunged.

IIRC a PBJ for DUI is not disqualifying. The ones that are disqualifying involve violent offenses are domestic abuse. A PBJ involves a guilty plea, strictly speaking, so it's more like: you agree that you may have beaten your wife but you won't beat her again and theyll erase the 1st offense. SO, have you stopped beating your wife?

I really see no reason that the legislature cannot differentiate the punishment for certain offenses. Like it or not. If you dont like the punishment, dont beat your wife.

 

[knastera]

There are two PBJs that prohibit a gun purchase or transfer: domestic violence and violence. Along with the signing of HB1302, this just proves that in Maryland, two of the most meaningless words are "due process."

 

[swinokur]

Saying certain crimes are expungeable and some are not is reasonable.

Unless you also think any crime should make you a prohibited person.

The law makes a distinction on these offenses as well.

Felony punishable by more than a year=Prohibited

State misdemeanors of more than 2 years=prohibited.

Using the all or nothing logic isn't actually logical.

One size does not fit all.

 

[Atrox88]

You guys ever noticed that when new laws are created there are usually loopholes to sidestep the law? Did you ever wonder why?

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Under Maryland law it a PBJ is not a conviction. Therefore no conviction no collateral consequences (ie no interlock). However Public Safety 5-101 specifically states that for purposes of considering what is a disqualifying crime for possession of firearms a PBJ for a 'crime of violence' or a PBJ for a 'domestically related crime' including a second degree assault shall be considered the same as a conviction. However a PBJ for a second degree assault that is not domestically related is not disqualifying.

 

[danb]

I have always wondered... PBJs are expungeable after 3 years, right? So what happens after that? Are ones gun rights restored?

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

I have always wondered... PBJs are expungeable after 3 years, right? So what happens after that? Are ones gun rights restored?

Yes.

 

[RoadDawg]

Under Maryland law it a PBJ is not a conviction. Therefore no conviction no collateral consequences (ie no interlock). However Public Safety 5-101 specifically states that for purposes of considering what is a disqualifying crime for possession of firearms a PBJ for a 'crime of violence' or a PBJ for a 'domestically related crime' including a second degree assault shall be considered the same as a conviction. However a PBJ for a second degree assault that is not domestically related is not disqualifying.

Judge: "Sir, I accept your guilty plea in this matter. As per the plea agreement, I now strike the guilty finding and will grant a period of Probation Before Judgement. So long as you abide by the terms of this probation agreement... and complete the period of probation without further conviction of any subsequent violations, the record will reflect the PBJ."

I've never witnessed any PBJ granted to any defendant... without first hearing a finding of guilt. Conviction first... THEN it is stricken and a PBJ entered into the record.

Verdict = guilty

Judgement = delayed pending completion of probation

PBJ < Innocent

Anyone who "accepts" a PBJ... MUST first accept guilt... or be found guilty of the offense for which the PBJ is entered into the record.

It's all legalese... and far too many folks accept a PBJ... NOT knowing the truth.

 

[swinokur]

I'll take the lawyer's opinion for 100 Alex.