Colt 1911 38 Super Question

[Reptile]

Based on its serial number, a bi-tone Colt Commander lightweight 38 Super I'm looking at was made in 1950. Well, the Commander frame was made in 1950, but I'm suspicious that the frame and the slide may not have begun life together.

The slide is blued and has the rampant colt on the left side with the words Commander Model Colt Super 38 Automatic. The slide stop, magazine release, thumb and grip safeties, and mainspring housing are also blued.

The frame appears to be an aluminum alloy. The barrel looks very good.

I'll try to get photos when I take a closer look at it today, but this strikes me as a Frankengun that might be a good shooter, but is not a collectible.

Any ideas about a reasonable price range for a mix and match shooter 38 super?

 

[starmetal]

Let's take two models Colt Commanders. There is the Colt Commander and there is the Colt Combat Commander. The difference is that the Combat Commander has a steel frame. The Commander the alloy Aluminum frame. It sounds that your slide is correct to the frame as it's marked just Commander, not Combat Commander. Whether the slide was original to that frame is more difficult to tell. Perhaps a letter to Colt with a description of your pistol and serial number might clear it up.

 

[Reptile]

Let's take two models Colt Commanders. There is the Colt Commander and there is the Colt Combat Commander. The difference is that the Combat Commander has a steel frame. The Commander the alloy Aluminum frame. It sounds that your slide is correct to the frame as it's marked just Commander, not Combat Commander. Whether the slide was original to that frame is more difficult to tell. Perhaps a letter to Colt with a description of your pistol and serial number might clear it up.

Thanks. What got me wondering was the Colt serial number database identified the serial number as a 1950 Commander, but other serial numbers belonging to 38 supers specifically named them as 38 supers. I want to avoid spending 100 dollars and waiting several months to find out what a Commander with that serial number looked like when it left the factory.

 

[mopar92]

I wouldn't go above $750 for a potential mixmaster of unknown provenance. Sure idiots will pay $1k and up for ponies but I am buying a gun not a brand. Things like the extractor, recoil spring and guide rod, the slide stop and various other parts and pieces might have been replaced by gunshow or Fleabay specials. If you're not familiar with the 1911 platform this can be a big bargaining chip as you'd need to pay a good smith to run though it.

 

[starmetal]

I happen to stubble upon a Colt nickel plated 38 Super slide complete with barrel. I built it in a complete gun with a Caspian frame. I can tell by the way it's stamped on the left side of the slide that she's an old one.

I feel any "complete" Colt is worth the money.

 

[somd_mustangs]

Based on its serial number, a bi-tone Colt Commander lightweight 38 Super I'm looking at was made in 1950. Well, the Commander frame was made in 1950, but I'm suspicious that the frame and the slide may not have begun life together.

The slide is blued and has the rampant colt on the left side with the words Commander Model Colt Super 38 Automatic. The slide stop, magazine release, thumb and grip safeties, and mainspring housing are also blued.

The 1950 would have a black frame, not natural ... blued slide & small parts would be correct, top of slide would be "matte" and sides are polished blue.
In other words "bi-tone" doesn't sound original finish to me for 1950...
but it depends what you mean by "bi-tone"
1950 was the 2nd year with S/N range from 66LW to 6000LW.

Here's a decent shot of a correct 1951 .38 Super Commander (lower pistol) for reference.
https://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=2105089&postcount=23

attached pic is top of a 1952 Super 38 full size slide, should be same for a Commander

 

[38super]

With out seeing the pistol this is my best guess. The slide should be marked commander 38 super auto with the pony on the end of the slide. This slide should have the fat barrel and not the skinny barrel used later on. As for the frame I would have to see pictures. Most people tricked out their pistols at the time and tried to have their pistols two tone. Most common was to nickel frames and leave the slides original blue. The 1950's Colt automatics were some of the best Colt ever made. They are built like Swiss watches and finished like they all left the custom shop. I do not know the asking price but original minty guns command good money. If you like the gun and price is good I would buy it. The gun it's self with out seeing it is worth a grand in parts.

 

[starmetal]

With out seeing the pistol this is my best guess. The slide should be marked commander 38 super auto with the pony on the end of the slide. This slide should have the fat barrel and not the skinny barrel used later on. As for the frame I would have to see pictures. Most people tricked out their pistols at the time and tried to have their pistols two tone. Most common was to nickel frames and leave the slides original blue. The 1950's Colt automatics were some of the best Colt ever made. They are built like Swiss watches and finished like they all left the custom shop. I do not know the asking price but original minty guns command good money. If you like the gun and price is good I would buy it. The gun it's self with out seeing it is worth a grand in parts.

I don't believe you are correct on the barrels. The early ones had thin barrels, I have one!

 

[Reptile]

Here's the best shot I could get:

 

[Reptile]

Sorry for the large image. Here's a smaller one:

 

[Reptile]

And a final one:

 

[38super]

I don't believe you are correct on the barrels. The early ones had thin barrels, I have one!

The 1950-1954 models had the fat barrel.

 

[38super]

I seen that pistol for sale. I did not look at it too close. Someone removed the finish off of the frame or polished the frame. Can be fixed in you wanted to. Slide is marked correctly. Still a nice pistol as is. The price was fair compared to internet prices.

 

[Reptile]

I seen that pistol for sale. I did not look at it too close. Someone removed the finish off of the frame or polished the frame. Can be fixed in you wanted to. Slide is marked correctly. Still a nice pistol as is. The price was fair compared to internet prices.

I agree that the frame has been polished. The buffing marks don't follow the contours, but that's not a show stopper for me. If I buy it I would keep it as is. No sense in hiding more than 65 years of history.

 

[starmetal]

The 1950-1954 models had the fat barrel.

I have a 'fat barrel' Colt 1911 in a 38 Super, as that term was used for the short run of this caliber when Colt was gearing up production post-WWII and used barrel blanks for 45 ACPs which resulted in a 'fat barrel' rather than a normal or 'thin barrel' 38 Super from a thinner blank.

To me that is a 'fat barrel' vs 'thin barrel' but perhaps that is incorrect or not something that refers exclusively to only one situation.

I wonder perhaps if you misconceiving when Colt thinned the barrel considerably behind the muzzle (the part fitting in the bushing) as the "thin" barrels? Those had sort of a Luger barrel look. What I'm talking about is straight barrels, Colt made thin ones and fats ones.

 

[starmetal]

Here's a picture of what I consider the fat and thin barrels.

 

[Magnumite]

That is a late 40's to mid 50's slide.

Colt commercial guns were marked to identify Colt as the manufacturer and the model. I didn't see any Colts manufacturer stamping and the Colt "V-P" on the pistol. Additionally the serial number doesn't have a "C" in it. There is no "No(.)" so that would preclude an altered martial pistol frame. Just the number range doesn't correlate to the serial broadcast range. Information from Poyer and Blue Book. Looks like another manufacturer's frame with the provided pics and information. I wouldn't pay a Colt price for it. That appears to be a parts gun.

 

[Pinecone]

It is not uncommon for the alloy framed Commanders to have the frame polished for the two tone look.

I would eventually like to get my LW Commander (later term for the alloy framed Commanders) done. But it needs a good bit of work beyond that. It is a 90s built piece of junk.

The link pin will fall out when you field strip the pistol.

 

[somd_mustangs]

That is a late 40's to mid 50's slide.

Colt commercial guns were marked to identify Colt as the manufacturer and the model. I didn't see any Colts manufacturer stamping and the Colt "V-P" on the pistol. Additionally the serial number doesn't have a "C" in it. There is no "No(.)" so that would preclude an altered martial pistol frame. Just the number range doesn't correlate to the serial broadcast range. Information from Poyer and Blue Book. Looks like another manufacturer's frame with the provided pics and information. I wouldn't pay a Colt price for it. That appears to be a parts gun.

The pistol Reptile posted pics of has a Colt frame, the S/N format is correct for a 1950 LW (there should be no C prefix or "No" prefix in it) (see Poyer p.263 Table 5-19).
It also looks like it has the inspector mark and VP on the left trigger guard, hard to see though.
I would tend to believe the gun has original parts but the frame is polished.
My 1952 Super 38 has a "fat" barrel BTW, uses a standard .45 barrel bushing.
It also does not have "COLT" or any other roll marking other than S/N 9xxxx on the frame itself (aside from inspector/VP marks - no "No." or "C" prefix).

 

[Magnumite]

Commanders were commercial pistols. Commercial pistols had a "C" in different positions of the serial numbers depending on time of production. The serial number range of the pistol in question would place its production in 1912 the 'LW' withstanding.

Blue Book indicates Commanders presented to generals and all serial numbers had 'C' prefixes. If there is a source indicating noncommercial Commander serial numbers I'd be interested in being directed to it. Always willing to learn.