Maryland Shall Issue at the Howard County Gun Show

[Minuteman]

Green doesn't look good on you.....

Not much does, but thanks for noticing.

You were looking pretty sporting in that Kathy Szeliga shirt; we have similar phisiques, maybe I'd look a little better in one of her shirts?

I voted for Donna Edwards against VH, and I'll vote against him again for Kathy Szeliga; one of the many benefits of being a registered Democrat. I get to vote against the worst of them twice.

 

[pilot25]

.... wish there was an organization with the original intent and basic philosophy of the original MSI.

I thought MSI was strictly lobbying for the "shall issue" too but after reading the MSI website I'm guessing that is a law that isn't going to be overcome in this state. It could be, but would take an effort of organization that isn't going to happen. There clearly is no passion for it with the firearm owners of Maryland.

 

[Stoveman]

Not much does, but thanks for noticing.

You were looking pretty sporting in that Kathy Szeliga shirt; we have similar phisiques, maybe I'd look a little better in one of her shirts?

I voted for Donna Edwards against VH, and I'll vote against him again for Kathy Szeliga; one of the many benefits of being a registered Democrat. I get to vote against the worst of them twice.

Possibly, but I doubt we'll see you out on the bricks, monsters are hard to tame...

 

[Mr H]

I thought MSI was strictly lobbying for the "shall issue" too but after reading the MSI website I'm guessing that is a law that isn't going to be overcome in this state. It could be, but would take an effort of organization that isn't going to happen. There clearly is no passion for it with the firearm owners of Maryland.

This has been covered over the years, but in short I'll say that the purpose of MSI has evolved in anticipation of--and in response to--the legislative climate. Thus, the current mission is some smaller, broader efforts, all of which need people committed to achieve them.

 

[Minuteman]

This has been covered over the years, but in short I'll say that the purpose of MSI has evolved in anticipation of--and in response to--the legislative climate. Thus, the current mission is some smaller, broader efforts, all of which need people committed to achieve them.

Very true and expertly said.

MSI will continue to evolve over time, it's by far the best pro-2A organization in Maryland.

 

[mxrider]

I thought MSI was strictly lobbying for the "shall issue" too but after reading the MSI website I'm guessing that is a law that isn't going to be overcome in this state. It could be, but would take an effort of organization that isn't going to happen. There clearly is no passion for it with the firearm owners of Maryland.

This has been covered over the years, but in short I'll say that the purpose of MSI has evolved in anticipation of--and in response to--the legislative climate. Thus, the current mission is some smaller, broader efforts, all of which need people committed to achieve them.

I'm going to expand on this a little bit given how new pilot25 is to the 2A fight. MSI was originally founded with Shall Issue it's sole purpose. Leading up to FSA2013, there became a need for MSI to join forces with the NRA, MSRPA and AGC (forgive me if I'm missing an .org in this) to battle the beast that was heading towards us. With the political climate that we have in Maryland, getting Shall Issue passed is a very very long road and they wanted to help out in any way they could.

With that being said, our primary goal is still Shall Issue. We will continue to fight for it and tear open any seams that we can find. We will also continue to fight for each and every person's right to personal protection.

 

[mxrider]

Not much does, but thanks for noticing.

You were looking pretty sporting in that Kathy Szeliga shirt; we have similar phisiques, maybe I'd look a little better in one of her shirts?

I voted for Donna Edwards against VH, and I'll vote against him again for Kathy Szeliga; one of the many benefits of being a registered Democrat. I get to vote against the worst of them twice.

Possibly, but I doubt we'll see you out on the bricks, monsters are hard to tame...

Can we TRY and keep this on topic please

 

[GTOGUNNER]

This has been covered over the years, but in short I'll say that the purpose of MSI has evolved in anticipation of--and in response to--the legislative climate. Thus, the current mission is some smaller, broader efforts, all of which need people committed to achieve them.

Maybe a broader name should be assumed. I do the Patriot Picket as I think it has a greater affect. MSI is preaching to the choir, and many in the choir aren't even registered to vote. Should MSI be in the voter registration business, YES.

 

[DC-W]

Any advocacy one wants to take on is appreciated, whether it be with MSI or not.

Lead by example.

I've been a MSI member for a few years now. Nothing is more disappointing than watching some members of it turn their noses up and work to belittle, stymie, or discourage the advocacy of others merely because they are not associated with MSI.

That's not the MSI I joined and not one I would remain a member of.

How do we motivate volunteers? By being ambassadors that others look up to and want to stand at the side of. If others are able to pick up the flag when MSI drops it, that's something to be appreciative of as its a time for reflection and self improvement.

There is a lot to be proud of from the past, but there will always be those who fall prey too easily to ignorance. MSI can be that force of knowledge and advocacy.

Remember this the next time someone donates their time or their money to MSI at a gun show or wherever.

 

[pilot25]

Maybe a broader name should be assumed.

Are you talking about a name change of the organization?

Marketing experts will tell you how difficult it is to re-brand something. The "shall issue" portion of the name is what drew me to the organization. However, I still joined even though the name isn't representative of a "shall issue" movement.

The NRA isn't just about rifles either.

There are 21k members on here. If only half of that organized to Annapolis to return Maryland to a "shall issue" state then I would be positive that something just might happen. However, how many MSI, NRA members on here are willing to do something to make it happen? Not nearly enough by a long shot. Most rather take the easy road and just move to another state that is constitutional or a shall issue state. I had a positive fun experience volunteering because the people I was with were so nice to me. However, in hindsight it was frustrating to see people walk by the booth and not even acknowledge it. Is it the aspect of money? I think so. People don't realize that time is money too. Donation of time is probably as valuable as money in a grassroots organization. Not one of the hundreds of people who walked through those doors came up and said, "I cannot afford money but how can I help." Maybe that is embarrassing for some, I don't know but I only met one person who was all in on the issue. John B. barely got his speech out and the guy was signing forms. Of course, you have to have lots of funds to make it work but as manpower increases the funds will come. That's why the NRA is so successful. Sadly there just aren't enough people in MD willing to do what it takes to get MD back to a constitutional state. Complaining over beers at a bar is more appealing, I guess.

Facts are Maryland has 2-1 democrats to republicans and that is assuming people who belong to those parties fall in their respective category with relation to 2A. Hogan knows this and isn't going to touch 2A when facing reelection. Gun control has become a hot issue lately and any conservative politician in a liberal state is going to pick their battles very wisely. So you have to attack the problem from a legal standpoint and hope some judge sees things our way.

Little off topic there but its frustrating to talk to people who complain about Maryland yet don't want to step up to do anything about it. If MSIs direction isn't yours then start an organization and get involved somehow to get Maryland back to where it should be. When my kid is a bit older and doesn't need as much of my time as now, I plan on being all over it. For now, I'm doing what I can. I think many more people can donate 2-3 hours, every few months, to protect their passion be it with MSI or somewhere else.

(None of this is directed at you GTOGunner.)

 

[Minuteman]

Can we TRY and keep this on topic please

And great abbreviated recap of MSI's origin and direction.

 

[dogbone]

Maybe a broader name should be assumed. I do the Patriot Picket as I think it has a greater affect. MSI is preaching to the choir, and many in the choir aren't even registered to vote. Should MSI be in the voter registration business, YES.

Ever since that "40% aren't even registered to vote" started floating around during the fight against SB281/FSA 2013, I have taken the few minutes required for training by the election board as a VRV (Voter Registration Volunteer.) I have run several voter efforts specifically targeting firearms owners and have my voter registration kit with me every time I work a show for MSI. In all that time, I have run across about three people who were not registered.

I still think it is an important field to cover and still drag the voter toys along with me but from a non-scientific sampling of the gun show attending population, getting people registered to vote isn't our biggest problem.

A larger issue is to get the 90% or more to step away from the keyboard and put their boots on the ground, whether with MSI, the Patriot Picket, or any other organization working to preserve and extend our 2A Rights. MSI is not the only organization facing the problem of getting people to get off their butts. I see the same faces at the same tables at damn near every show.

I don't have a magic answer. There probably isn't one. The only thing I can suggest right now (It's been a month of 60 hour weeks and it's past my bed time) is to look in the mirror tomorrow morning and ask yourself, "Am I doing enough?"

 

[dblas]

When I first joined MSI it was a very small organization of highly motivated and dedicated individuals. It was almost exclusively focused on 'shall issue'. It was easy to join and help. Over time MSI's goals have somewhat changed it's now more like the NRA. I'm already a life member of the NRA, and wish there was an organization with the original intent and basic philosophy of the original MSI; I'd like to join that organization all over again.

So, if I understand this correctly, you, and others, would like MSI to go back to ignoring everything else 2A related and simply concentrate on wear and carry?

 

[dblas]

Maybe a broader name should be assumed. I do the Patriot Picket as I think it has a greater affect. MSI is preaching to the choir, and many in the choir aren't even registered to vote. Should MSI be in the voter registration business, YES.

Great, would you like to be in charge of the Voter registration Committee?

 

[Stoveman]

Can we TRY and keep this on topic please

Here's my take on MSI and this is coming from an outsider looking in. Not a member and don't play one on TV.

MSI has no juice.

They are terrible at touting what victories they have achieved and don't give anyone a reason to get involved. As stated previously in this thread there are over 700 members and could only get one to man a booth at a gun show.

I see other MDS members posting up the VCDL and WVCDL calls to action and I've yet to see one MSI call to action in the three years I've been a member here.

Other than the president, you and Mr. H, I haven't seen another MSI member post up a thing about ways to get involved or events to attend. And one of your more vocal members constantly denigrates the actions of other groups he disagrees with, including in this thread.

I know it's not totally an MSI event, but 2A Tuesday this year was a disaster. I took off work to listen to some guy talk about nerf gun safety with his kids and was reminded repeatedly about somebody polar bear plunging at Deep Creek Lake. Yawn.

They ask for donations for the HQL lawsuit, this community responds overwhelmingly and then zero updates.

I always bitch about people who bitch and don't offer solutions, so here are mine:

Change the name. Nobody outside the 2A community knows what Shall Issue means.

Change the structure of the organization. Most non profits have VP's or executive VP's in charge of a specific function or task, the president shouldn't have to do it all.

Better communication and not just with members. Post up a thread here weekly with what's going on. Press releases as needed, keep yourselves relevant.

Embrace and get behind other organization's projects. The event in Baltimore that Montoya and Jaybeez were at this weekend is a prime example. Non partisan firearms education event, MSI should have been all over it.



Just my two shekels, don't take any of it personally.

 

[GTOGUNNER]

Ever since that "40% aren't even registered to vote" started floating around during the fight against SB281/FSA 2013, I have taken the few minutes required for training by the election board as a VRV (Voter Registration Volunteer.) I have run several voter efforts specifically targeting firearms owners and have my voter registration kit with me every time I work a show for MSI. In all that time, I have run across about three people who were not registered.

Thank you..

I still think it is an important field to cover and still drag the voter toys along with me but from a non-scientific sampling of the gun show attending population, getting people registered to vote isn't our biggest problem.

A larger issue is to get the 90% or more to step away from the keyboard and put their boots on the ground, whether with MSI, the Patriot Picket, or any other organization working to preserve and extend our 2A Rights. MSI is not the only organization facing the problem of getting people to get off their butts. I see the same faces at the same tables at damn near every show.

Some people write great letters, others testify very well. Some hand out pamphlets, others organize and create .orgs or carry banners. All of it is needed.

I don't have a magic answer. There probably isn't one. The only thing I can suggest right now (It's been a month of 60 hour weeks and it's past my bed time) is to look in the mirror tomorrow morning and ask yourself, "Am I doing enough?"

I know I do enough. Even earlier this year donated a fair amount of money to MSI,, I support the cause. I just think the mechanism needs fine tuned. Oh wait, I don't think you were speaking about me.

 

[mxrider]

Appreciate the honest feedback. Just a couple of points.

They ask for donations for the HQL lawsuit, this community responds overwhelmingly and then zero updates.

I have posted updates as we moved through this process and as of right this minute, there's nothing to update.

Change the name. Nobody outside the 2A community knows what Shall Issue means.

This has been discussed quite a few times, but this would be at the direction of the Board of Directors and as of now, they want to leave it as it is.

Change the structure of the organization. Most non profits have VP's or executive VP's in charge of a specific function or task, the president shouldn't have to do it all.

I agree completely and we are working towards that. Not eVP's but chairman of different parts of the organization.

Better communication and not just with members. Post up a thread here weekly with what's going on. Press releases as needed, keep yourselves relevant.

This one is a little touchy because (and I'm speaking only for myself on this) this is not our website. MDS has been invaluable to MSI and I am grateful for everything that it has afforded to MSI. At the same time, I try not to take that for granted. This is why we send out our email updates.

Embrace and get behind other organization's projects. The event in Baltimore that Montoya and Jaybeez were at this weekend is a prime example. Non partisan firearms education event, MSI should have been all over it.

Actually, MSI was there for this.

Just my two shekels, don't take any of it personally.

Again, thanks. Nothing personal about it to me.

 

[dblas]

Here's my take on MSI and this is coming from an outsider looking in. Not a member and don't play one on TV.

MSI has no juice.

They are terrible at touting what victories they have achieved and don't give anyone a reason to get involved. As stated previously in this thread there are over 700 members and could only get one to man a booth at a gun show.

I see other MDS members posting up the VCDL and WVCDL calls to action and I've yet to see one MSI call to action in the three years I've been a member here.

When we have touted victories (shell casing law in 2015 and fingerprint requirement for wear and carry renewal in 2016) most of the folks that respond tend be on the negative side.

No offense and don't take this as a cop out, but apples and oranges. Both VA and WV have issues at the local and county level as well as the state level because neither state has pre-emption, unlike here in Maryland were all of the laws for firearms are set at the state level. However, with that being said, there are some local issues that do crop up from time to time, the problem is one of bringing it to MSI's attention so we can try and do something about it. If we don't know about it, how can there be a call to action?

Somewhat of an answer to this, MSI is working on a grass roots initiative for just this reason, there have been three training sessions the far, and there will be more coming, but it boils down to one thing, participation.

Other than the president, you and Mr. H, I haven't seen another MSI member post up a thing about ways to get involved or events to attend. And one of your more vocal members constantly denigrates the actions of other groups he disagrees with, including in this thread.

We constantly ask for event for MSI to attend, guess what we get.....crickets. Not a criticism, just a fact at this point in time.

I know it's not totally an MSI event, but 2A Tuesday this year was a disaster. I took off work to listen to some guy talk about nerf gun safety with his kids and was reminded repeatedly about somebody polar bear plunging at Deep Creek Lake. Yawn.

Yep, we are working on revamping that.

They ask for donations for the HQL lawsuit, this community responds overwhelmingly and then zero updates.

Until we file, there really is no update, how many e-mails would you like that simply say, "yep, no update"? <Sarcasm>

I always bitch about people who bitch and don't offer solutions, so here are mine:

Change the name. Nobody outside the 2A community knows what Shall Issue means.

This has been discussed, but you would actually be surprised how many people that we deal with, know who/what we are. Now, how to get them to join and/or involved.

Change the structure of the organization. Most non profits have VP's or executive VP's in charge of a specific function or task, the president shouldn't have to do it all.

We actually have committees and committee chairs, guess how many folks have stepped up to fill the committee spots?? Yep, you got it....crickets. As an aside, I don't do it all, but the officers and the BOD do more than their fair share.

Better communication and not just with members. Post up a thread here weekly with what's going on. Press releases as needed, keep yourselves relevant. [/quote}

Such as????

Embrace and get behind other organization's projects. The event in Baltimore that Montoya and Jaybeez were at this weekend is a prime example. Non partisan firearms education event, MSI should have been all over it.

We were there and we did promote it.

Just my two shekels, don't take any of it personally.

Non taken personally at all, thanks for the input. Feel free to pick my answers above, apart or make suggestions.

 

[Stoveman]

I hear you both, but long story short, if you keep doing what you're doing you're going to keep getting what you're getting.

I learned a long time ago in business that I've got to change and adapt to my environment because it keeps changing. I do things now that I never would have thought about 10 years ago.

I wish you both well.

 

[buellsfurn]

When we have touted victories (shell casing law in 2015 and fingerprint requirement for wear and carry renewal in 2016) most of the folks that respond tend be on the negative side.

No offense and don't take this as a cop out, but apples and oranges. Both VA and WV have issues at the local and county level as well as the state level because neither state has pre-emption, unlike here in Maryland were all of the laws for firearms are set at the state level. However, with that being said, there are some local issues that do crop up from time to time, the problem is one of bringing it to MSI's attention so we can try and do something about it. If we don't know about it, how can there be a call to action?

Somewhat of an answer to this, MSI is working on a grass roots initiative for just this reason, there have been three training sessions the far, and there will be more coming, but it boils down to one thing, participation.



We constantly ask for event for MSI to attend, guess what we get.....crickets. Not a criticism, just a fact at this point in time.



Yep, we are working on revamping that.



Until we file, there really is no update, how many e-mails would you like that simply say, "yep, no update"? <Sarcasm>



This has been discussed, but you would actually be surprised how many people that we deal with, know who/what we are. Now, how to get them to join and/or involved.



We actually have committees and committee chairs, guess how many folks have stepped up to fill the committee spots?? Yep, you got it....crickets. As an aside, I don't do it all, but the officers and the BOD do more than their fair share.

Better communication and not just with members. Post up a thread here weekly with what's going on. Press releases as needed, keep yourselves relevant. [/quote}

Such as????



We were there and we did promote it.




Non taken personally at all, thanks for the input. Feel free to pick my answers above, apart or make suggestions.

If I may sir for what its worth I was registered for one of the grass roots at sanners lake last month. I wanted to see what it was all about. The first email I received stated just that no obligation come and see what its about. within the next couple days I started receiving emails to watch/ study and to write something about what I read re : emails. And to be thinking of an topic that my friends and myself would like to talk about. So from no obligation to what I felt was a college prep course . so I advised George with in a week of the class that I would not be attending and didn't feel like this would be something I would be interested in after all with apologies.