Pietta Model 1851 Confederate Navy .44 cal

[chesapeakeIRON]

Just ordered the Pietta Model 1851 Confederate Navy .44 cal BP revolver from Cabelas. After applying a promo code and 20 dollars worth of Cabelas points (for signing up for their card, Ill pay that off immediately) my total came to 184.99

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Piet...Navy-Caliber-Black-Powder-Revolver/740536.uts

Seems like a pretty good deal...This will be my first BP Firearm. What is your experience with this if you have one?

 

[Threeband]

Congratulations! I think you'll like your "Army caliber" Navy. I hope so, anyway.

I was a little hard on those .44 "Navys" in these old posts, and I really hope you won't take it to heart. I'm really not such a purist stickler for historical accuracy as I may sound, and I wasn't really serious. There's nothing wrong with an oxymoron.

I really like the boxy styling of the '51 better than the "streamline" design of the 1860, so putting a '51 style Army-caliber(.44) barrel on an 1860 Army (rebated) frame results in a really nice gun-that-never-was: an 1851 Army.

I think you should just shoot it.

It's actually a cross between an 1860 Army (rebated frame and cylinder) with an 1851 style loading lever and octagonal barrel. It looks like it has the longer 1860 grip, too.

"Army" means .44 caliber, and "Navy" means .36, in the usage of the day.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2901812&postcount=39

Those .44 "Navys" are oxymoronic.

In the usage of the day, "Navy caliber" meant .36, while "Army caliber" meant .44. So a .44 Navy is a contradiction in terms.

The '51 Navy was significant as the first fighting sixgun of a practical size for belt-holster carry. The Dragoons were too big, the Baby Dragoons were too small, but the Navy was juuuuust right. The Navy had a reputation as a decent man-stopper, too, when loaded with round balls. (Per Elmer Keith, whose Civil War informant told him the conical bullets were poor man stoppers. Sixguns)

Anyway, in 1851, it was not possible to get a six-shot .44 cylinder on a Navy-size frame. It just would not fit. But by 1860, Colt solved the problem by rebating the frame and cylinder. Look closely at the 1860 Army, and you'll see a step in the frame, and a matching step in the cylinder. This trick allowed Colt to make a .44 six-shooter on a .36 size frame.

You'll see the same rebated 1860-type set up on those phony-baloney ".44 Navys".

My first handgun was a '51 Navy. It was an Uberti I picked up at the Dallas gun show back in '81. Of course by that time, the new-fangled cartridge guns were getting pretty common... But anyway...

The '51 Navy was always .36 caliber. In fact, back in the day, "Navy caliber" meant .36, while "Army caliber" meant .44. Those so-called ".44 navys" are oxymorons.

Colt made .31s on a small frame, .36s on a medium frame, and .44s on a humongous frame: the Dragoons. The Navy was popular because is was the ideal size, but Colt just could not fit a six shot .44 cylinder on that Navy-size frame.

Then a designer (was it Root???) had the brilliant idea of rebating the cylinder: making a cylinder with a step in it, with the rear section the smaller Navy diameter, and the front section enlarged to hold six rounds of .44. The frame had to be stepped also, but otherwise it was the same as the Navy frame. The new medium frame .44 was the 1860 Army. If you look at a good photo of a '60 Army (or better yet, handle the real thing), you will see the step in the frame matching the rebated cylinder.

...

...
It is a practical set up. Not historical, but so what?

Get one!

I like the 5 1/2" barrel Remingtons, too.

 

[Gryphon]

I picked up one of the .36's about 7 or 8 months ago for a few dollars less. It was too good of a deal and it was right after I watched some moron argue all the Confederate monuments should be removed.

 

[Melnic]

36 caliber supplies can be hard to acquire locally. I have the 44 cal brass frame navy also.
It was posted in another thread, don't remove the screw for the wedge. You just pinch the wedge and slide it out. (I think that's how it goes). I just remember, not to pull the screw out.
I don't know why but my Navy shoots better than my 58 army. The army shoots great with cowboy load 45LC using my reloads

 

[BeoBill]

I have the Pietta Navy and the New Army, both in .44. The Navy is my favorite of the two. She seems lighter and better behaved in my hand after an afternoon. The biggest drawback is the crude sights, IMO. Follow the loading recommendations in the package and you'll enjoy yourself for many years, I'm sure.

WRT: The Infamous Wedge... You may have some difficulty removing it at first. Back the screw out, clamp down on it on the OPPOSITE side of the barrel with some pliers, and shove it out. You might notice a very small clip on that side - it keeps the wedge from working out of the frame. Depress it and the wedge should slide out. If not, penetrating oil or WD-40 are your new best friends.

Nother hint: You can get everything you need locally from Bass Pro.

 

[Threeband]

NO!

Don't touch the screw that holds the wedge in!

Long ago I made a little non-marring plastic punch from a cut-off toothbrush handle. I would hold that punch against the little spring clip in the top of the wedge. Then I would WHACK! the plastic punch with a mallet or something at a slight downward angle which would simultaneously depress the spring clip and loosen the wedge itself.

Once loosened, I pull the wedge all the way to the left until the screw holds it. That's as far as it needs to go.

The screw is there to prevent the wedge from being completely removed.

 

[chesapeakeIRON]

Wow some good information here guys, I'm pumped to shoot it once it gets here. I do have to grab some powder

Threeband-i might have to get the authentic version in the correct caliber from Pietta.

I have alot to learn here as this is my first BP firearm I have owned

Thanks for everyone's feedback so far!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Threeband]

What you have is just fine. If you decide you like cap-and-ball revolvers, you can go wild getting other models.

Do an advanced search for the term "loading stand" in posts by some yahoo calls hisself "Threeband". That'll get you to several good threads about these ridiculous obsolete firearms.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=89119


http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=94712


Oh, a point I meant to say:

The (.36) Colt Navy was the Glock of its day.

Contemplate that.

 

[chesapeakeIRON]

So what is the purpose of the wedge?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Threeband]

The wedge holds the barrel on. It holds the whole dang gun together.

It goes through a slot in the arbor, or cylinder pin.

You loosen the wedge, then pull the barrel off. The cylinder comes right off, and that's it. On new, tight guns, you may position the cylinder so the loading lever will bear between two chambers and use the lever to push the barrel off.


By the way, when you get you '51 Army, disassemble it and slather wheel bearing grease on the arbor. You'll see it has a bunch of grooves milled in it too hold the lubricant.

I always used ordinary cheap wheel bearing grease over the balls, to seal the chambers, as well as on the arbor for lube. I've often used it to lube my M1 Garands, too, but that's a different thread.



One more thing:

The rear sight is a tiny vee notch in the hammer spur. I use a miniature slitting file to file a square notch about 1/8" wide by as deep as possible. That means deep enough that I can just see the front sight peeking over the breech end of the barrel. No point going deeper.

These guns shoot high, because the front sight is too short. By filing a deep notch, I can bury the front sight in the bottom of the notch and take a six o'clock hold and occasionally hit what I want to hit. Or I used too, anyway.

Something like the second from the top file in this set:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/General-...-Canvas-Storage-Case-6-Piece-707476/100572556

 

[Blacksmith101]

The wedge holds the barrel on. It holds the whole dang gun together.

It goes through a slot in the arbor, or cylinder pin.

You loosen the wedge, then pull the barrel off. The cylinder comes right off, and that's it. On new, tight guns, you may position the cylinder so the loading lever will bear between two chambers and use the lever to push the barrel off.


By the way, when you get you '51 Army, disassemble it and slather wheel bearing grease on the arbor. You'll see it has a bunch of grooves milled in it too hold the lubricant.

I always used ordinary cheap wheel bearing grease over the balls, to seal the chambers, as well as on the arbor for lube. I've often used it to lube my M1 Garands, too, but that's a different thread.

You use wheel bearing grease on your balls? This may be headed to another thread.

 

[Threeband]

Lasts much longer than KY or Astroglide. Cheaper, too and won't melt when things get hot.

...

It's always good to smear lube on your balls.

 

[BeoBill]

NO!

Don't touch the screw that holds the wedge in!

Long ago I made a little non-marring plastic punch from a cut-off toothbrush handle. I would hold that punch against the little spring clip in the top of the wedge. Then I would WHACK! the plastic punch with a mallet or something at a slight downward angle which would simultaneously depress the spring clip and loosen the wedge itself.

Once loosened, I pull the wedge all the way to the left until the screw holds it. That's as far as it needs to go.

The screw is there to prevent the wedge from being completely removed.

Interesting. See: http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/pietta-1851-navy-parts.html
I see no mechanical connection between the screw (12) and the Wedge (11), or the wedge pin (57) and wedge spring (58). I've completely removed and lubed the wedge assembly many times with no ill effect at all. You have me curious. Care to educate us?

 

[Threeband]

The head of the screw prevents the wedge from coming out and getting lost, while allowing it to be pulled out enough for disassembly of the gun. There is no need or even reason to remove it. All removing it accomplishes is to wear out the screw, bugger up the slot, and lead to both the screw and the wedge getting lost.

There is no reason or need to even loosen the screw. Next time, try disassembling the gun without so much as touching that screw. You'll see what I mean.

 

[Gryphon]

You guys got me going here so I dug into the safe and it turns out I too bought a '51 Navy .44, not a .36, so I still don't own a Glock after all.

 

[jimbobborg]

Seems to me this is a Tuco Special. I own one, and a replica 1860 Army. The 1860's barrel is slightly longer than the 1851's. I have not purchased holsters for either of them yet.

 

[chesapeakeIRON]

You guys got me going here so I dug into the safe and it turns out I too bought a '51 Navy .44, not a .36, so I still don't own a Glock after all.

Yeah hear you - I have had some fun just reading everyones posts....once I get my .44 I am thinking I might have to pick up a .36. I think Ruger still makes repros as well as Colt

 

[POP57]

When I clicked the link, it's price comes up as $149.99

 

[chesapeakeIRON]

When I clicked the link, it's price comes up as $149.99

Yeah that is the price, for just the revolver, I opted for the option that came with the "starter kit" which is 199

http://www.cabelas.com/product/piet...36&categoryIds=104792580|104701680|567338580|

 

[chesapeakeIRON]

What you have is just fine. If you decide you like cap-and-ball revolvers, you can go wild getting other models.

Do an advanced search for the term "loading stand" in posts by some yahoo calls hisself "Threeband". That'll get you to several good threads about these ridiculous obsolete firearms.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=89119


http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=94712


Oh, a point I meant to say:

The (.36) Colt Navy was the Glock of its day.

Contemplate that.

Thanks for guidance - Ill do some reading now